Who would you prefer Topic

dahsdebater
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to be your starting PG?  Keith Towner or Oscar Thompson?  I would think Thompson would run away with it due to his Def and Ath, but Towner's offensive stats have been much better to date.  He also plays on a much better team, though.
4/18/2011 6:00 PM
wsut
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Why does it matter? They are 2 different players in 2 different worlds. I think you are just fishing for compliments. Thompson is much better, btw
4/18/2011 6:21 PM
jenningss
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Oscar Thompson cuz he looks like he plays tennis.
4/18/2011 6:22 PM
tianyi7886
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They both suck, shot blocking is way too low...
4/18/2011 7:03 PM
dahsdebater
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Thanks for all the helpful comments!  Morons.  wsut, neither one is good enough to "fish for compliments" with.  And Tianyi, I'm too lazy to look at your teams but I know your guards on the Drew team you brag about so much pretty much have single-digit SB.  So does anybody have anything actually useful or helpful to say?
4/18/2011 7:23 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by dahsdebater on 4/18/2011 7:23:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for all the helpful comments!  Morons.  wsut, neither one is good enough to "fish for compliments" with.  And Tianyi, I'm too lazy to look at your teams but I know your guards on the Drew team you brag about so much pretty much have single-digit SB.  So does anybody have anything actually useful or helpful to say?
My post was just a retort to you saying this guy is nothing special, because his passing is too low:

http://whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=1760170


Your post:
 
4/18/2011 7:43 PM
zsap
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Kinda bored now, so I'll give you an in-depth analysis.

These guys are both amazing in my weighted rating system. It is on a 100 basis and it only uses the core attributes which for a PG are SPD, BH, PASS, ATH in that order. Towner's rating is 71.4 and Thomspon's rating is 77.6. A clear difference here. But lets look at individual numbers to see which guy benefits your team more and who is the most efficient shooter.

Points per possession: A measure of how many points a player scores per individual possession

Thompson: .85 (Under 1.00 is usually not good, he only scores .85 PPP which is not to great, but its worth it based on his actual ratings)
Towner: 1.16 PPP (anything over 1 is usually acceptable)

eFG: Accounts for the fact that 3-pointers are worth an extra point, something ignored by traditional field-goal percentage

Thompson: 42.2%
Towner: 55.0%

TOR: Turnover Rate-The percentage of a player's individual possessions that end in a turnover (lower is better and more important for guards as they are the main bh/passer)

Thompson: 16.8
Towner: 16.7

Floor%: A measure of the # of possessions he scores on divided by his total possessions

Thompson: 42.1
Towner: 58.0


As you may see, Towner is way better statistically. But he is most likely playing on a worse team so not much of a difference. If you take defense into a factor than Thompson is probably better. I've seen that players with higher IQ's have higher statistically ratings, just like Towner here.

Hopefully, that gives some use to you to adjust your distro and playing time for these guys accordingly.

Oh also 1 more rating:

Points per 40 minutes: If you play a guy 40 minutes this is an estimation of how many points he will score.

Thompson: 23.3 PP40min
Towner: 19 PP40min.


TO ADD ON: THOMPSON IS GOING INTO THE OVER-POSSESION CATEGORY. I WOULD RECOMMEND ON CUTTING DOWN ON SOME DISTRO TO MAKE HIM MORE EFFICIENT, BUT IF HE IS YOUR ONLY SCORER YOU CAN KEEP HIS DISTRO HIGH.

4/18/2011 8:22 PM (edited)
dahsdebater
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Thompson's team is pretty bad, and he's definitely shooting more than I would prefer.  I don't have a lot of other options, though.
4/18/2011 8:30 PM
dahsdebater
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Posted by tianyi7886 on 4/18/2011 7:44:00 PM (view original):
Posted by dahsdebater on 4/18/2011 7:23:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for all the helpful comments!  Morons.  wsut, neither one is good enough to "fish for compliments" with.  And Tianyi, I'm too lazy to look at your teams but I know your guards on the Drew team you brag about so much pretty much have single-digit SB.  So does anybody have anything actually useful or helpful to say?
My post was just a retort to you saying this guy is nothing special, because his passing is too low:

http://whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=1760170


Your post:
 
Looks like I said his defense is unexceptional.  Not that the player is unexceptional.  He's clearly an exceptional player.  But I would almost certainly take a guard or post with that kind of overall rating over him, because they likely wouldn't have weaknesses in the way that he does.  That being said, he's shooting so much that the passing isn't causing too many turnovers, so really no weaknesses but not great defensively.  Good, but not great.
4/18/2011 8:32 PM
tianyi7886
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Why would you take a big over him? He has the same kind of core ratings as an above average post player, but with alot more spd/per/bh. If you are going to say this guy is simply good, but not great, then I have to say the guards you posted are simply above average, rather than pretty good. 
4/18/2011 8:55 PM
dahsdebater
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Wow, you have really poor reading comprehension with very selective interpretation.  I said his defense is good, not great.  In fact, let me quote myself.  "He's clearly an exceptional player."  But you only pick up what I said about his defense...  And the reason I'd take a post guy with that overall rating is that likely the lower speed, perimeter, and ball handling would go into defense and rebounding.  If you had a post player pushing 800 overall you'd have to imagine he's 70+ Ath and Def, 90+ Reb, LP, and SB, with plenty of BH and Pass and maybe even some speed and Per.
4/18/2011 9:07 PM
tianyi7886
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Posted by dahsdebater on 4/18/2011 9:07:00 PM (view original):
Wow, you have really poor reading comprehension with very selective interpretation.  I said his defense is good, not great.  In fact, let me quote myself.  "He's clearly an exceptional player."  But you only pick up what I said about his defense...  And the reason I'd take a post guy with that overall rating is that likely the lower speed, perimeter, and ball handling would go into defense and rebounding.  If you had a post player pushing 800 overall you'd have to imagine he's 70+ Ath and Def, 90+ Reb, LP, and SB, with plenty of BH and Pass and maybe even some speed and Per.

You ended your last post with "Good, not great." Not "Defense is good, but not great." And I have had PF hit 770, Jerome Glaze on my Transylvania did it last season. He does not have plenty of bh and passing, nor more speed and per. I have yet to see a D3 big with over 70 spd.

This 800 rated guy is the perfect 2 guard, with great ath/spd combo, tremendous LP and PER (most 2 guards only have 1, not both). Only difference is, this guy's rebounding is as good as alot of D3 bigs, and that is tremendous.

4/18/2011 10:15 PM
tianyi7886
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And here is the first post about this player in the other thread:

"In all honesty, he can't pass and his defense is unexceptional.  SFs can end up with really high overall ratings and still not blow you away with what they can actually do...  That guy is getting some serious boards for a 3, though.  I had an SF graduate at around 740 a few seasons ago and he was, at best, the 4th-best player on the team."

Maybe someone else can read this post and interpret it for me, since I have horrendous reading comprehension. It sure seems like you were suggesting this guy is nothing spectacular, by pointing to his passing and defense weaknesses, and then comparing him to your 740 rated SF, who was only the 4th best player on your team.
4/18/2011 10:19 PM
arssanguinus
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That guy would have the highest rating at _Division two_ in Phelan.  I looked.

4/18/2011 10:29 PM
dahsdebater
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Ok, so to get this back on track a bit...  Which of my PGs would you want from a purely offensive standpoint, in a vacuum?  Thompson has a fairly significant advantage in Ath and slight edges in speed, BH, Pass, and Per - all of the guard cores - but Towner has a 59 point edge in LP, basically the difference between having no LP and having post-player LP.
4/19/2011 2:16 PM
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