Not complaining about this, because I actually agree that a PIT championship should be worth less than a National Tournament berth, but I was given a contrary impression somewhere in this forum (though I cannot find the thread).

As I recall, it was indicated that a PIT Final Four was worth roughly the same (in terms of prestige and expectations) as a 1st round exit in the Nat'l Tourney. This doesn't seem to be accurate, based on my experience with Hamline this past season. The team played a very weak schedule (intentionally) as I wasn't sure what access I would have to game-plan and what-not. We were ranked #1 pre-season, and went 8-2 OOC (both losses to ranked teams, one that ended up with 20 wins, the other with 30 wins).

We were ranked heading into conference play. In conference play, we lost our 2nd game (to a ranked team, perhaps #1 at the time, ended with 29 wins) and dropped out of the top 25. We won the rest of our conference games and finished the regular season around a 19/20 ranking. We lost in the semi-finals of the conference tournament to a good (not great) team that won the CT and a NT game, ending with 20 wins. After that loss, we were ranked 25th, but after the CTs ended, we were unranked.

I was a bit surprised we didn't get an at-large berth at 24-4 and just outside the top 25, but the RPI was low, so it wasn't shocking. We ended up rolling teams in the PIT, with 3 20-point wins, and a 13-point win in the title game. In the end, we had the PIT title, a 29-4 record, a #13 ranking, and an RPI of 44.

Nevertheless, we dropped from A to A- (after dropping from A+ to A the year before) and from exceeding expectations to meeting expectations. I don't have a problem with it (after all, we missed the NT) but it wasn't how I heard it described here in the forums, so though I'd bring it up so others knew what to expect.

I'm not sure your conclusion is totally accurate. Looking back you dropped from A to A- a few seasons back after going from a Sweet 16 to a NT 2nd rd. I think this could be more a symptom of that first of the back to back championship games is now 5 seasons old more than the difference between NT 1 and PIT Champ - in other words, I imagine you'd have seen a similar drop with a 1st rd loss.

Interesting thought dac, and I could, in fact, be completely off.

That said, I don't *think* I'd have dropped to an A- had I had a NT appearance and similar RPI/ranking/win numbers, (44/13/29) even with a first-round loss. And this is also the first time I have been merely "meeting expectations" since my first NT appearance, so I'm even more confident that a NT appearance could have avoided that.

Maybe not though; I can't say for certain as I have nothing near a handle on how any of it is calculated.

Next season the first NT (Championship Game) drops out of the 5-season window. Do you think that I am destined to drop below an A- if I fail to have another deep NT run this coming season?

zbrent, i think a PI championship is definitely worth more than a NT1. not positive, but pretty sure. anyway, the sim really weights your last season, and the one before that, more than the 3rd and 4th season back. stupid? i think so. but thats just the way it is, so with your 2 biggest seasons being a PI title and a NT1, an a- is pretty reasonable. with your gaudy record, i guess an a is not out of the question, but i have also seen plenty of people win the PIT or lose in 1st round of the NT and not improve on a b- or b (with their 5th season, the one that dropped off, being a no-post season season).

Zbrent at the end of the previous season with St Johns I dropped all the way from A to B+ after a NT berth

Posted by dacj501 on 5/4/2011 12:15:00 AM (view original):
I'm not sure your conclusion is totally accurate. Looking back you dropped from A to A- a few seasons back after going from a Sweet 16 to a NT 2nd rd. I think this could be more a symptom of that first of the back to back championship games is now 5 seasons old more than the difference between NT 1 and PIT Champ - in other words, I imagine you'd have seen a similar drop with a 1st rd loss.

Agreed -- it has mostly to due with the championship game appearance dropping out of your four-year window (and the other one moving from Year 3 to Year 4).

Posted by pjbrankin on 5/4/2011 4:20:00 AM (view original):
Zbrent at the end of the previous season with St Johns I dropped all the way from A to B+ after a NT berth

True, although you also had a relatively down season in terms or wins (19), RPI (54), and ranking (none) and had a NT1 appearance drop out of the 5-year window that season.

Two seasons ago I won the DII PIT in Crum. Prestige remained at B+, program went from "exceeding expectations" to "meeting expectations" and got a "bump-in-the-road" (ie: poor season) email from the AD.

is it possible the prestige values are similar overall but the meeting/exceeding expectations has slightly different criteria where a NT berth carries more value?