I don't think I've noticed this level of potential for any skill but LP? Have others noticed it with other skills? Thanks for any insight.

Posted by jskenner on 9/9/2011 9:32:00 AM (view original):
I don't think I've noticed this level of potential for any skill but LP? Have others noticed it with other skills? Thanks for any insight.

js, it's just the high-high message for low post ... all of the skills have different verbiage that denotes high-high.

dalt, in my experience, when I get the LP "sky's the limit" the potential is beyond high-high, which I perceive as roughly 30-39. In effect, "sky's the limit" irmplies unlimited potential. As an example, I have a C for my Phelan team. He started at 39 and will hit 99 by end of Sr year (he's at 95 at end of Jr). I've also had players starting under 20 who wind up over 70 (and they're still going strong with improvement at the end of their careers, but run out of time to keep improving). In contrast, high-high potentials reach absolute limits.

I'm not positive jskenner,but I've had a similar feeling to the one you have about all this.

LP and PE have the capacity to have a larger total improvement than other categories.

Normally, high-high represents 28+. You can get the "sky's the limit" message on lp and have it improve the standard 30, or it could be much more. (And of course pe has the same higher opportunity for total improvement, and that message isn't "sky's the limit.)

Yeah, look again, JS - you can't get "massive! potential" or anything like that with LP.

Dalt - Yes, but again, my understanding is that "massive" means high-high, or roughly 30-39 potential improvement. My understanding was developed based on my experience of "massive" potential being limited, and "sky's the limit" potential NOT being limited. I've never seen a case of "sky's the limit" being limited at 30. Maybe my experience has been different than others. I've never seen "sky's the limit" with perimeter. Again, not saying it doesn't exist, but that I have never seen (maybe just not noticed) it. Now, if you have experience of "sky's the limit" with LP actually being limited (sometimes) to 30, I'll take your word for it and begin considering this a possibility when I see this in an eval. But do you really have this experience, or are you making an assumption? Not trying to face you or anything. Just trying to really figure out what this particular eval message means, and also trying to figure out why I've never seen PE have the same unlimited potential, whether it's described as "sky's the limit" or something else. Thanks for your help.

cornfused, I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean to say that instead of LP high-high potential being described as "massive" or something like that, it's high-high is described as "sky's the limit"? If so, that doesn't match my experience.

That's exactly what I mean, js.  Here's a challenge for you: find for me, in an old ST email, a positive message about LP that isn't one of these two responses:

a) sky's the limit.
b) has a LOT of room for growth with the right drills and coaching.

Alternatively, find a "sky's the limit" message about any skill other than LP.

I used to think the same as you, but I've realized this over time - I just graduated a guy at DII whose perimeter (not "sky's the limit") jumped from 28 to 97 over the course of a five-year career; I've had "sky's the limit" LPs cap out in the low +30s.

Ok, cornfused. Thanks for the insight. I must've not paid enough attention on these. So to combine your's and dalt's takes, high-high for everything but LP/PE means high-high, and with LP/PE it could mean high-high, or it could be unlimited, and one can not definitvely tell from the eval alone. But once practice starts, one might be able to reasonably determine limited or unlimited given the rate of change in combination wtih WE and practice minutes. Would you agree with that? Thanks again.

Yes, although I'd be less likely than dalt to say that a +60 in ATH is impossible.  It's almost definitely rarer, though.

Awesome, thanks cornfused and dalt.

looking back at one of my teams over the past 10-12 seasons these are my max improvements in a single category by a player:

+42  ATH
+35  SPD
+44  REB
+44  DEF
+33  BLK 
+68  LP 
+55  PER
+51  BH
+56  PAS
+40  STA
+43  DUR
FT:  +7 grades

Posted by Iguana1 on 9/9/2011 12:12:00 PM (view original):
looking back at one of my teams over the past 10-12 seasons these are my max improvements in a single category by a player:

+42  ATH
+35  SPD
+44  REB
+44  DEF
+33  BLK 
+68  LP 
+55  PER
+51  BH
+56  PAS
+40  STA
+43  DUR
FT:  +7 grades

Very interesting data, and pretty much confirms what I figured I was seeing. I'm actually surprised the max improvement you saw in ATH was even that high - I don't think I've seen above 33-35 recently, even with high-high potential.

Posted by bhansalid00 on 9/9/2011 1:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Iguana1 on 9/9/2011 12:12:00 PM (view original):
looking back at one of my teams over the past 10-12 seasons these are my max improvements in a single category by a player:

+42  ATH
+35  SPD
+44  REB
+44  DEF
+33  BLK 
+68  LP 
+55  PER
+51  BH
+56  PAS
+40  STA
+43  DUR
FT:  +7 grades

Very interesting data, and pretty much confirms what I figured I was seeing. I'm actually surprised the max improvement you saw in ATH was even that high - I don't think I've seen above 33-35 recently, even with high-high potential.

Well, to be fair, only iguana could've gotten that improvement. Anyone else would've capped out at 35.

I had a guy go from I believe 27 per to 94 in D3. He definitely ended at 94 but he could've started in the low 30s. I've also had a guy improve 40 points in 1 season in LP, which meant there were multiple practices where he went up 2 points.