Fly Ball / Ground Ball Topic

sermonauthor
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I can't believe I don't know this after 50+ seasons, but sometimes you need to humble yourself to learn something. 

I don't understand the fly ball/ground ball setting on the pitcher's card. What is the meaning of the number and what is the ideal we are looking for--high/low/medium?

We're heading into some playoff games in Colorado Springs and I have many strong SP options. What kind of number am I looking for in that situation where the ball is going to carry?

Thanks for your help in advance.
12/20/2011 4:36 AM
shobob
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High number means groundball pitcher, which is generally a better thing.  Low number means flyball pitcher, which is generally bad, unless you are in a cavernous park, with outfielders who have good range, combined with a defensively poor infield.
12/20/2011 6:33 AM
caesari
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Basically, GB pitchers get more outs and double plays and such. While neither is "bad," per se, if you have a pitcher with a GB/FB rating of zero, he's more likely to get lit up in a hitters park.
12/20/2011 9:25 AM
sergei91
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they should just change the category name to 'groundball tendency'. then it would be better understood that the higher the better, instead of the way they have it named now
12/20/2011 9:31 AM
tedwmoore
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Colorado Springs is a pitcher's park though, I wouldn't shy away from starting a flyball pitcher there.  And as with everything else about pitchers, a lot depends on their other ratings.  Plenty of pitchers remain effective/dominant while sustaining higher-than-average flyball rates; like Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Sid Milligan.  Of course guys with average flyball tendencies can also be dominant, like Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Carson Graves and Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Joe Lawrie.

So it depends.  How good are the pitcher's other stats?  And also, CSP is a much different hitting environment than Coors Field, rating out at 1, 0, 1, -1, -2, so a guy with stronger flyball tendencies can still be effective there even without dominant secondary ratings.
12/20/2011 10:11 AM
boogerlips
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Sounds like understanding ballpark factors is something most people miss out on. Coor Field isn't really a HR park. Its an everything park. Its does no more harm to pitch a flyball guy there than at a neutral all zero's park. Milwaukee is a HR park. 
I'll try to link a thread later from SLB discussions (they're usually a little more...ah....in depth) about how BPFs work.
12/20/2011 11:21 AM
caesari
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A pitcher in my world just got a max contract, and he has a FB/GB rating of 0. Every other attribute is great, though.
12/20/2011 11:34 AM
dedelman
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Posted by caesari on 12/20/2011 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Basically, GB pitchers get more outs and double plays and such. While neither is "bad," per se, if you have a pitcher with a GB/FB rating of zero, he's more likely to get lit up in a hitters park.
I don't think this is completely correct, although (a) I have no hard evidence and (b) I used to think it was completely correct.

The out/hit decision is made early in the simulation.  I think that high GB/FB does not lead to more plays on which there are outs-- I think it converts flyouts to groundouts.  This is still good, because there are (a) more GIDP and (b) fewer sac flies.  But if you believe the sim engine is similar to sim league baseball, the errors and +/- plays are made late in the simulation (that is, they are "outs" that are converted to baserunners), and the above advantage could be significantly negated if you had a much better defensive OF than IF.
12/20/2011 2:25 PM
caesari
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Posted by dedelman on 12/20/2011 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by caesari on 12/20/2011 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Basically, GB pitchers get more outs and double plays and such. While neither is "bad," per se, if you have a pitcher with a GB/FB rating of zero, he's more likely to get lit up in a hitters park.
I don't think this is completely correct, although (a) I have no hard evidence and (b) I used to think it was completely correct.

The out/hit decision is made early in the simulation.  I think that high GB/FB does not lead to more plays on which there are outs-- I think it converts flyouts to groundouts.  This is still good, because there are (a) more GIDP and (b) fewer sac flies.  But if you believe the sim engine is similar to sim league baseball, the errors and +/- plays are made late in the simulation (that is, they are "outs" that are converted to baserunners), and the above advantage could be significantly negated if you had a much better defensive OF than IF.
This is interesting, as I've never heard it put like that. But it begs the question: why have the rating then?
12/20/2011 3:05 PM
MikeT23
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I used to disregard the GB/FB rating.    Later on, I recognized a common denominator amongst pitchers that underperformed.   Low GB/FB.   And it was simply because they allowed more homers.  I don't get all freaked out over it but, if you don't think it matters or that they allow more homers, I'd check again.

12/20/2011 3:35 PM
soursurfer
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Posted by boogerlips on 12/20/2011 11:21:00 AM (view original):
Sounds like understanding ballpark factors is something most people miss out on. Coor Field isn't really a HR park. Its an everything park. Its does no more harm to pitch a flyball guy there than at a neutral all zero's park. Milwaukee is a HR park. 
I'll try to link a thread later from SLB discussions (they're usually a little more...ah....in depth) about how BPFs work.
Neither of these are Colorado Springs.
12/20/2011 4:11 PM
boogerlips
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Agreed.
12/20/2011 11:32 PM
boogerlips
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Posted by dedelman on 12/20/2011 2:25:00 PM (view original):
Posted by caesari on 12/20/2011 9:25:00 AM (view original):
Basically, GB pitchers get more outs and double plays and such. While neither is "bad," per se, if you have a pitcher with a GB/FB rating of zero, he's more likely to get lit up in a hitters park.
I don't think this is completely correct, although (a) I have no hard evidence and (b) I used to think it was completely correct.

The out/hit decision is made early in the simulation.  I think that high GB/FB does not lead to more plays on which there are outs-- I think it converts flyouts to groundouts.  This is still good, because there are (a) more GIDP and (b) fewer sac flies.  But if you believe the sim engine is similar to sim league baseball, the errors and +/- plays are made late in the simulation (that is, they are "outs" that are converted to baserunners), and the above advantage could be significantly negated if you had a much better defensive OF than IF.
It also converts HRs to lesser hits. Just like HR/9 in SLB.
12/20/2011 11:34 PM
Fly Ball / Ground Ball Topic
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