Which on for Cy Young Topic

oriolemagic
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Pitcher one pitches in Honolulu: 205ip 2.50 era, .97 whip, 8.03 k/9, 2.37 bb/9, 1.05 hr/9
 
Pitcher two pitches in Nashville: 286 ip, 3.08 era, 1.11 whip, 7.77 k/9, 2.48 bb/9, .69 hr/9

Honolulu is -2,0,-1,-2,0
Nashville is 1,1,1,1,2
 
Which one and why?
2/20/2012 11:58 AM
JFerg
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Nashville pitcher - The huge difference in innings and hr/9 are so much better then the pitcher from Honolulu.  Adding in the park factors makes this choice even easier and it wasn't a difficult choice in the first place. 
2/20/2012 12:06 PM
kcden
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What are their home/road splits?
I would lean towards #1, although it's hard to ignore the extra 81 innings.
2/20/2012 12:07 PM
oriolemagic
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Honolulu Pitcher
Home - 2.28 era, 0.93 whip, 8.21 k/9, 2.38 bb/9, 0.95 hr/9
Away -  2.69 era, 1.01 whip, 7.92 k/9, 2.37 bb/9, 1.14 hr/9

Nashville Pitcher
Home - 2.94 era, 1.11 whip, 7.84 k/9, 2.42 bb/9, .80 hr/9
Away - 3.26 era, 1.11 whip, 7.73 k/9, 2.57 bb/9, .55 hr/9
2/20/2012 12:17 PM
JFerg
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Posted by kcden on 2/20/2012 12:07:00 PM (view original):
What are their home/road splits?
I would lean towards #1, although it's hard to ignore the extra 81 innings.
39.5% more innings pitched.  That's impossible to ignore unless the other pitchers stats were much superior and they aren't superior in anyway.
2/20/2012 12:20 PM
MikeT23
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Well, they're not if you don't count ERA, WHIP, K/9 or BB/9.

2/20/2012 12:34 PM
jvford
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And if you ignore the parks for a sec (I know, big if), the extra 81 innings came with a 1.45 WHIP and 4.55 ERA.  Not exactly tough to find 81 ML average innings.
2/20/2012 12:38 PM
mchalesarmy
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Yeah, I don't get the ip argument.
So the guy is a horse, that doesn't make him better. It's like you want to penalize the other guy because he isn't 90/30. 

The big thing to me is the huge difference in park factor.I'd like to see the staggering numbers P2 would have put up in Honolulu.
2/20/2012 12:54 PM
kcden
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Posted by oriolemagic on 2/20/2012 12:17:00 PM (view original):
Honolulu Pitcher
Home - 2.28 era, 0.93 whip, 8.21 k/9, 2.38 bb/9, 0.95 hr/9
Away -  2.69 era, 1.01 whip, 7.92 k/9, 2.37 bb/9, 1.14 hr/9

Nashville Pitcher
Home - 2.94 era, 1.11 whip, 7.84 k/9, 2.42 bb/9, .80 hr/9
Away - 3.26 era, 1.11 whip, 7.73 k/9, 2.57 bb/9, .55 hr/9
For me, this tilts it much more in Honolulu's pitcher's direction.  He was quite a bit better on the road than Nashville dude was at home or on the road (except in HR-rate). 
2/20/2012 12:56 PM
JFerg
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Whip and ERA shouldn't be used to evaluate best pitcher.  The use of K/9, BB/9, HR/9, and innings are the numbers to look at as well as park factors.  I mean you could look at more but we don't have all that information through the simulator.
2/20/2012 12:57 PM
JFerg
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Posted by mchalesarmy on 2/20/2012 12:55:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I don't get the ip argument.
So the guy is a horse, that doesn't make him better. It's like you want to penalize the other guy because he isn't 90/30. 

The big thing to me is the huge difference in park factor.I'd like to see the staggering numbers P2 would have put up in Honolulu.
So you are saying the pitchers skill set shouldn't be taken into account?  Let's just find the best reliever with 20 innings then.  Innings do matter, that's just a dumb thing to say.
2/20/2012 12:58 PM
mchalesarmy
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205 is plenty
2/20/2012 1:10 PM
MikeT23
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Posted by JFerg on 2/20/2012 12:57:00 PM (view original):
Whip and ERA shouldn't be used to evaluate best pitcher.  The use of K/9, BB/9, HR/9, and innings are the numbers to look at as well as park factors.  I mean you could look at more but we don't have all that information through the simulator.
So not allowing baserunners or runs isn't important?

What sort of game do you play?
2/20/2012 1:13 PM
oriolemagic
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Posted by kcden on 2/20/2012 12:56:00 PM (view original):
Posted by oriolemagic on 2/20/2012 12:17:00 PM (view original):
Honolulu Pitcher
Home - 2.28 era, 0.93 whip, 8.21 k/9, 2.38 bb/9, 0.95 hr/9
Away -  2.69 era, 1.01 whip, 7.92 k/9, 2.37 bb/9, 1.14 hr/9

Nashville Pitcher
Home - 2.94 era, 1.11 whip, 7.84 k/9, 2.42 bb/9, .80 hr/9
Away - 3.26 era, 1.11 whip, 7.73 k/9, 2.57 bb/9, .55 hr/9
For me, this tilts it much more in Honolulu's pitcher's direction.  He was quite a bit better on the road than Nashville dude was at home or on the road (except in HR-rate). 
I am not sure much better is the right adjective..  On the road, .19 k/9, .20 bb/9, and  -.59 hr/9.  That equates to 4 more strikeouts, 4 less walks and 13 more homeruns allowed.  I would actually say that is worse..
2/20/2012 1:16 PM
JFerg
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Runs and Whip take into account the defense behind you.  We should mostly be looking at what a pitcher can control, the things he has best control of are K/9, BB/9, and HR/9.  HR/9 has stadium factors but the lower the better for obvious reasons. 
2/20/2012 1:17 PM
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