This has been discussed before, more in "0 ADV OWNERS SHOULDN'T VETO BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW!!!!" form, but it has been discussed.  However, I'm coming at it from a different angle.

I don't play in many worlds where owners still maintain an ADV budget.   But, when I do, it's almost impossible to trade with someone who does have money in ADV.   In the most recent case, I kind of hit a roadblock in an attempt to trade B-type players(as I saw it). 

My pitcher has 300+ IP in his career.    Solid but not spectacular with 1.3 WHIP and 3.5 ERA.   But he's not that good.  My D helps him a lot.  LH, good control(that magical 90), league average splits and solid pitches.   He's deserving of a BL spot but probably doesn't make it as a starter on a playoff team.

The player I attempted to acquire looks a lot like he'll be a bad 2B/CF thus making him a good LF.   With 20m training, he went from 69 to 74 in range and, with a league average FI, he went from 46 to 52 glove in his first full season.   He certainly looks like he'd be a very good hitter for a CF or 2B.   Not so much for a LF.   My experience tells me he's like to end up 80-82 range but will struggle to get to 65 in glove.   That puts him in LF, possibly GG LF-type, but I don't think he carries the bat.   Therefore, he's a B-type player.

So it got me thinking.    If the ADV skewers the other owner's view, or if I'm just wrong about development, worlds who have a good mix of ADV/no ADV must be a nightmare to trade in.   Two owners can look at 2nd year players and see entirely different players.

Thoughts?
2/26/2013 4:24 PM

You could realistically say that even with two owners who have the exact amount spent in adv (or none at all), it could be decision constipation with the owner(s) your talking to. Some guys think an every 5 day player is worth more than a 120 to 140 game player.  Really no contest.  I know I got caught up looking solely at overall when I first signed up to play this game, not realizing that some times a 76 used properly is better than an 82.  The owners you're negotiating with, do they have the experience to work out progression without adv?

2/26/2013 4:56 PM
I don't know if experience is the key to 0 ADV.  It helps but some may prefer to not to do the legwork. 
2/26/2013 6:58 PM
Some (many?) owners tend to overvalue their own players, particularly their own prospects.

Many owners also tend to want to "win" every trade they make, i.e. get more in return that what they are giving up.

Put those two things together, and you have a difficult owner to make deals with.


2/26/2013 8:24 PM
That's just standard trading practice.  I feel like something different is at work.
2/26/2013 8:49 PM
Not necessarily.  

With 0 ADV you're looking at the players current ratings only and doing a mental projection with a "glass half empty" mentaility.  Your proposed trading partner is most likely putting too much stock into the ADV he sees with a "glass half full" mentaility.  He's still valuing his players more highly than you are.  That's the disconnect.
2/26/2013 8:59 PM
Again, standard trading practice.  EVERYONE overvalues their prospects.   They drafted them in the first round.   They must be good.   But, in this case, I'm looking at a player based on what I've seen.  They're looking them based on what they see.
2/26/2013 9:02 PM
ADV can definitely skew a person's view on a player.  It wasn't until I recently took over a team with 4 adv scouting in another world that I had thought about trying to extrapolate a players development from a season's growth.  When I first joined the league it was difficult to make trades involving players who's projections appeared to be on the ML/AAA cusp because my advance scouting, poor though it may be, was all I had to go by.  When a few ratings points means the difference between a light hitting 2B with a good glove or a light hitting 2B with a below average glove, if you calculate his projection to be 72 and my scouts say 79 that could be enough to prevent a deal from happening.

It was about that time that I decided such low advanced scouting was worthless and started looking for development patterns; this made trading a hell of a lot easier.  Experience is definitely helpful with regards to 0 scouting as I already had a feel for when a player will fall short of his projections and by how much.  

More to your original question though, unless a world is completely 0 advanced scouting, you will always have people seeing entirely different players when looking at a given prospect.  At the end of the day, I do think experience plays a large roll in how easy/difficult it is to execute a trade.  If you've played long enough you know that guy who isn't a diamond in the rough and hasn't gained any control over the last few seasons isn't going to suddenly go from 60 to 80 just because your scouts say he is.
2/26/2013 9:26 PM

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