I've long wondered if shot blocking is simply a cosmetic category or one that truly impacts defensive effectiveness.  While I recognize there are many other factors, i think my question is if all other factors are equal, will a shot blocking big tend to decrease the shooting percentage of an opponent; or is that percentage determined by other factors and then the nature of the misses are then described in the box score more as blocked shots for the player with the higher sb rating?

I think, don't know how correct this is, that they would be categorized as effecting the shooting process for players. So I would  say yes, it will decrease shooting percentage overall. That being said I don't think it's a big part of the equation, and would probably give up a lot on shot blocking if it meant picking up a couple extra points on defense. 

 

Maybe an example will kind of clear that up but what I'm theorizing is that hypothetically ath sp and de would contribute to whether or not the offense is able to get a shot off, and ath sb and de are part of the does the shot go in or not category. I could be wrong and both these could be determined at once, which would make def and ath the overriding parts of the equation, which they do seem to be.

I think the above is pretty accurate.
I also think block is used I the defense of guards. I think t by at is why guards can be so effective at scoring with lesser lp ratings.

26 queen--- sort of both (I think). 

Much like assists on offense are themselves "cosmetic" - but the high passing rating helps increase FG% and so creates more opportunities for assists.

On D, I think the high SB rating can help reduce FG%, but I don't think individual shots are designated as "blocked" or not until after they have already been identified as "missed" in the engine.

I agree with zbrent, too.

Posted by zbrent716 on 2/17/2014 4:11:00 PM (view original):
26 queen--- sort of both (I think). 

Much like assists on offense are themselves "cosmetic" - but the high passing rating helps increase FG% and so creates more opportunities for assists.

On D, I think the high SB rating can help reduce FG%, but I don't think individual shots are designated as "blocked" or not until after they have already been identified as "missed" in the engine.

So you think there is an effect like often happens with great shotblockers where they change as many shots as they block and make it extremely hard to score in the lane?

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/17/2014 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zbrent716 on 2/17/2014 4:11:00 PM (view original):
26 queen--- sort of both (I think). 

Much like assists on offense are themselves "cosmetic" - but the high passing rating helps increase FG% and so creates more opportunities for assists.

On D, I think the high SB rating can help reduce FG%, but I don't think individual shots are designated as "blocked" or not until after they have already been identified as "missed" in the engine.

So you think there is an effect like often happens with great shotblockers where they change as many shots as they block and make it extremely hard to score in the lane?

I think there is an impact on opponent FG% - whether you want to call it "changing" shots or not depends on your perspective of the engine (I'm not sure I believe such a thing exists). 

As for "as many as they block" my instinct (and I've run no real analysis on this, just based on my experience) would be to say no. I think SB (even at elite levels and even in zone where it is supposed to have more impact) is reduced in importance compared to real life.

i agree with zbrent, the value of SB is not where it should be. i used to ignore it completely, like durability, and that didn't stop me from winning titles. it was a different time, as there was no potential, and sb and rebounding were both so tightly bound to height. so just by caring about rebounding, you mostly got good enough sb. now its a bit different, as the correlation between sb and reb is weakened - and even in the old days i realized my stance of "ignore completely" was not quite right. but it didn't hurt me, and i feel like its vastly easier to slack on sb than defense or athleticism. i think its decently important though, particularly in the zone, i think ignoring sb in the zone would be moderately significant... maybe half as important as defense in zone, maybe a third in press, something along those lines?

Posted by zbrent716 on 2/17/2014 4:51:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ettaexpress on 2/17/2014 4:42:00 PM (view original):

Posted by zbrent716 on 2/17/2014 4:11:00 PM (view original):
26 queen--- sort of both (I think). 

Much like assists on offense are themselves "cosmetic" - but the high passing rating helps increase FG% and so creates more opportunities for assists.

On D, I think the high SB rating can help reduce FG%, but I don't think individual shots are designated as "blocked" or not until after they have already been identified as "missed" in the engine.

So you think there is an effect like often happens with great shotblockers where they change as many shots as they block and make it extremely hard to score in the lane?

I think there is an impact on opponent FG% - whether you want to call it "changing" shots or not depends on your perspective of the engine (I'm not sure I believe such a thing exists). 

As for "as many as they block" my instinct (and I've run no real analysis on this, just based on my experience) would be to say no. I think SB (even at elite levels and even in zone where it is supposed to have more impact) is reduced in importance compared to real life.

I think in the context of the game that your description and mine have sufficient congruence.

I wonder to what extent the game correctly models rebounding after blocked shots. 

Good discussion, thanks guys.