ok. So I have five main guards. Trying to figure out the top four. The top one is blindingly obvious. Walthall runs away with that. Number two is Parker despite his ball handling problems. It's three four and five I'm not as sure of. Urick has speed, ball handling and lp over the others, Devote had perimeter over the other two and speed over Jhonson. Jhonson and Devita have Ath over Urick. Jhonson has per over Urick. Jhonson and Devita have passing over Urick. Devita and Urick have a rebounding edge over Jhonson. The defenses are about equal - especially after Devita develops a bit more. I keep juggling the three in my head and coming up with different orders. Any opinions?

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=13170

well, my first comment is that summary of the ratings differences is utterly impossible to follow - as is expected. i don't have time to really get into it, but you should be looking at the player's abilities, not just ratings, which has the positive side effect of making it much easier to talk about this stuff. iwanturmind had a question recently where i got into the difference in abilities vs ratings to some extent, maybe that would be a useful read for some background.

anyway, definitely agree with parker at pg and walthall at sg. urick cant play pg so the question is really which of the other 2 plays pg and then who plays sg, it seems to me, as a way of simplifying a bit. devita and johnson are roughly on par defensively (the ability, not the rating) and in terms of guard skills, particularly passing (passing matters extra at pg). offensively, its a bit of a wash as well - devita has better core 3pt/fg% ratings, but johnson has IQ and ft%. i think you could go either way, but by the end of the season, probably devita is the way to go. 

as far as the sg situation, it depends what you need. it seems to me you already have enough 3 point shooting and perimeter offense from the 2 starters and devita at backup pg (or johnson, if you so choose). urick is stronger defensively than the other two, and from a guard skills standpoint, they are roughly even (bh/pass). his offense is probably a bit less than the others, so really its a trade off - not a strict "one is better than the other" type of thing - as is often the case. it all comes down to what abilities your team needs and what abilities these players provide. it seems to me, without looking at the rest of your team, that you have plenty of guard offense already, so i'd guess urick. but if you have crap offense outside your guards, you might want 2 offensive guards on the floor at all times. and maybe urick would work out fine scoring wise, that seems to vary by situation for a player like him, so there's that caveat, too. 

This would be my rotation, no doubt.

PG: Parker | Urick
SG: Walthall | Jhonson
SF: Gilbert | Devita
PF: Minder | Gibb
C: Roberts | Pritchard

Smith doesn't deserve any time, but it wouldn't be a terrible idea to back the 3, 4, and 5 up with Jackson, i.e.:

PG: Parker | Urick
SG: Walthall | Jhonson
SF: Gilbert | Devita | Jackson
PF: Minder | Gibb | Jackson
C: Roberts | Pritchard |      | Jackson

PS: I did leave the third string open at center because I wouldn't want Jackson stealing too much time from Roberts, who is by far your best big in every facet (rebounding, defending, scoring). At 4th string, I can't imagine Jackson would see any playing time at the 5 unless Roberts or Pritchard were in foul trouble.

Also, you could reliably get around 10 points per game out of Gilbert at around 1.5 points per shot. I would bump up his distro significantly and lower Pritchard's. Gilbert will also draw more fouls out of your opponents.

By the way, you have a very nice team. I think you might actually have a better team than Lincoln with the right rotation/distro. Your players are more imperfect, but you have the necessary pieces.

Smith isn't getting any PT because he's a redshirted project player. I have some post scoring between minder and Roberts, and by season's end minder should be contributing more consistently as his stamina improves. As for gibb, I have been somewhat reluctant to move that 45 rebounding into my post rotation, which is why he ends up backing Gilbert at the three. Your lineup has been one of the primary other ones I've been considering, actually.

Gibb may have a low rebounding rating, but as gillispie pointed out, his ability to rebound in another thing altogether and he is not terrible, in terms of rebounding ability, for a backup 4 at DII. In fact, he's almost as good at rebounding as Jackson, who you're playing 18.6 mpg.

And Gibb is also a much better defender and certainly a more competent scorer. I have Jackson graded as an 54 (out of 100) at the 4 currently and Gibb as a 63.

Yah. Debated with that. And getting Devita playing time would be a good thing. I like it when I have enough good options that I have to think about how to place them best rather than having pretty much only one way to go.

And in other news, tonight I get to see if I can lose yet another nt championship game! Woot!(on the arssanguinus ID, Averett)

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/6/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
well, my first comment is that summary of the ratings differences is utterly impossible to follow - as is expected. i don't have time to really get into it, but you should be looking at the player's abilities, not just ratings, which has the positive side effect of making it much easier to talk about this stuff. iwanturmind had a question recently where i got into the difference in abilities vs ratings to some extent, maybe that would be a useful read for some background.

anyway, definitely agree with parker at pg and walthall at sg. urick cant play pg so the question is really which of the other 2 plays pg and then who plays sg, it seems to me, as a way of simplifying a bit. devita and johnson are roughly on par defensively (the ability, not the rating) and in terms of guard skills, particularly passing (passing matters extra at pg). offensively, its a bit of a wash as well - devita has better core 3pt/fg% ratings, but johnson has IQ and ft%. i think you could go either way, but by the end of the season, probably devita is the way to go. 

as far as the sg situation, it depends what you need. it seems to me you already have enough 3 point shooting and perimeter offense from the 2 starters and devita at backup pg (or johnson, if you so choose). urick is stronger defensively than the other two, and from a guard skills standpoint, they are roughly even (bh/pass). his offense is probably a bit less than the others, so really its a trade off - not a strict "one is better than the other" type of thing - as is often the case. it all comes down to what abilities your team needs and what abilities these players provide. it seems to me, without looking at the rest of your team, that you have plenty of guard offense already, so i'd guess urick. but if you have crap offense outside your guards, you might want 2 offensive guards on the floor at all times. and maybe urick would work out fine scoring wise, that seems to vary by situation for a player like him, so there's that caveat, too. 

That was sort of the point. All of them have various differing conglomeration a of abilities and none of them are standing out in such a way that they are blindingly obvious choices- although Devita will I think be an obvious choice by the end of the season. I tend to prefer recruiting in "ability clusters" of at least three. "Speed/bh/per", "ath/reb/blk", "lp/ath/reb", "BH/pass/spd". Once I find a cluster like that, try to make sure the player has at least average abilities in one or two other areas. When you are lucky, you get Walthall and Roberts. When less lucky it tends to give you Urick who is at least serviceable.

Let me also say that I always love reading everything you post about the game, it either confirms something for me or at least gives me something to think about.

Posted by a_in_the_b on 10/6/2014 9:21:00 PM (view original):

Posted by gillispie1 on 10/6/2014 12:01:00 PM (view original):
well, my first comment is that summary of the ratings differences is utterly impossible to follow - as is expected. i don't have time to really get into it, but you should be looking at the player's abilities, not just ratings, which has the positive side effect of making it much easier to talk about this stuff. iwanturmind had a question recently where i got into the difference in abilities vs ratings to some extent, maybe that would be a useful read for some background.

anyway, definitely agree with parker at pg and walthall at sg. urick cant play pg so the question is really which of the other 2 plays pg and then who plays sg, it seems to me, as a way of simplifying a bit. devita and johnson are roughly on par defensively (the ability, not the rating) and in terms of guard skills, particularly passing (passing matters extra at pg). offensively, its a bit of a wash as well - devita has better core 3pt/fg% ratings, but johnson has IQ and ft%. i think you could go either way, but by the end of the season, probably devita is the way to go. 

as far as the sg situation, it depends what you need. it seems to me you already have enough 3 point shooting and perimeter offense from the 2 starters and devita at backup pg (or johnson, if you so choose). urick is stronger defensively than the other two, and from a guard skills standpoint, they are roughly even (bh/pass). his offense is probably a bit less than the others, so really its a trade off - not a strict "one is better than the other" type of thing - as is often the case. it all comes down to what abilities your team needs and what abilities these players provide. it seems to me, without looking at the rest of your team, that you have plenty of guard offense already, so i'd guess urick. but if you have crap offense outside your guards, you might want 2 offensive guards on the floor at all times. and maybe urick would work out fine scoring wise, that seems to vary by situation for a player like him, so there's that caveat, too. 

That was sort of the point. All of them have various differing conglomeration a of abilities and none of them are standing out in such a way that they are blindingly obvious choices- although Devita will I think be an obvious choice by the end of the season. I tend to prefer recruiting in "ability clusters" of at least three. "Speed/bh/per", "ath/reb/blk", "lp/ath/reb", "BH/pass/spd". Once I find a cluster like that, try to make sure the player has at least average abilities in one or two other areas. When you are lucky, you get Walthall and Roberts. When less lucky it tends to give you Urick who is at least serviceable.

Let me also say that I always love reading everything you post about the game, it either confirms something for me or at least gives me something to think about.

Perhaps your tendency to eyeball these clusters is holding you back from taking the next step as a coach. Before my hiatus from HD, I don't think I was more than just an above average coach, but since I came back, I developed a system of rating players and projecting progression that has enabled me to turn around Princeton from a D-prestige, sub-250 RPI team to a Ivy League Champion, 96 RPI team in year one with six freshman. We are 22-5 with a RPI of 49 in year two. We'll likely be fielding what I believe to be a Sweet 16 caliber team in just two more seasons, while it took me seven seasons to get into the second round of the NT at NC State before my hiatus.

It takes time to work out these spreadsheets, but it pays off. If you're interested, I could even send you a screenshot of my spreadsheet to show you how mine is set up.

At the moment I have been trying to slowly work up player roles formulae, modifying them a bit art a time based on what works. It has netted me a few really nice run including yet another nt championship loss. Yay me.