Contributing to Conference RPI Topic

wvufan76
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I have taken over a total rebuild, and for the first time in a traditional Big Six Conference.  However in this World, they have been running multiple Sim squads for a few seasons, and they are not in the Top Six RPI slots for Conferences.

I need a refresher in building Conference RPI.  Is it better for my Conference for me to Play other Big Six Schools and get my brains beaten in, or play lower tier Human teams and try to win as many games as possible?  I do know playing Sim teams at this level doesn't really help the conference.

3/16/2015 8:51 AM
bathtubhippo
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hey wvu, take with a grain of salt due to my inexperience in the big 6, but i don't think it'd be all that different from what i'd personally do anywhere, just on a different scale.

IMO you're only going to hurt your own prestige getting beaten to death in non-conf and then struggling in conference as well, so i think that's not productive. i also think the conference would benefit from you having more wins with an okay SOS over less wins and a gaudy SOS.

i think you're wrong about not wanting to play sims--you'll get plenty of human opponents in your conference, and your rebuilding team isn't ready for prime time scheduling. IMO, aim for a 10-0 start to help offset the conference losses your rebuilding team is going to take over the next couple season. i'd recommend scheduling almost all sims on the road--ones you think you can beat and estimate will end up in the 100-200 rpi range.

not a novel suggestion but that's what i'd do.

3/16/2015 9:05 AM
arssanguinus
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Schedule the best teams that you are pretty confident you can beat.
3/16/2015 10:03 AM
hitman1979
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Been reading more on this lately.  I feel like a lot of coaches get this wrong.

I think your best bet is to look at conferences with only a few human coaches.  These teams are usually going to end up with 20+ wins, which is going to be huge for your RPI.  Getting bashed in has it's own merits - your SOS is going to be really good, but you need to make sure you have enough wins to make the post-season.  To be honest, scheduling these bashers might actually be pretty good for the individual team, but bad for the conference.

If you can get a full conference all on the same page, then you can REALLY start to get things working in your favor.  If you get every human in the conference on board to guarantee themselves 10-0 non-conference seasons, when those teams start playing each other in conference play, everyone's RPI is going to shoot through the roof.  I've never seen a conference get fully on board with this.  Too many nay-sayers, and "selfish" scheduling.  I think it really would work.

I've recently read that you can put together a good mix, but I am afraid to try it.  Basically what you would do is schedule probably 4 road games against teams from power conferences, and the rest the mid major, mostly empty conferences.  This should really do a lot for your SOS, but you would count on probably 4-6 losses in the non-conference season.

If I want to contribute to conference RPI, though, I'm going to make sure that I go 10-0 or 9-1 in non-conference play.

3/16/2015 3:31 PM
Trentonjoe
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Posted by arssanguinus on 3/16/2015 10:03:00 AM (view original):
Schedule the best teams that you are pretty confident you can beat.
This.....beating 10 soso sims will help your RPI but not your NT seeding.
3/16/2015 3:43 PM
tarvolon
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I'm with arssanguinus. Schedule the best teams you can beat. Losing games against good teams might help your own RPI, but it won't help your conference RPI, because it hurts the SOS of everyone else in your conference. 

Also, when I say "best," I mean when judged by win%, not when judged by RPI. 
3/16/2015 3:44 PM
bathtubhippo
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to be clear, I agree with the others here on scheduling the best you can beat.

my opinion above on playing "so-so sims" is predicated on the perspective that this is the best you can beat consistently right now, and that you're not playing for seeding, because your team is not an NT team (yet). beating 10 sims in the top 150 rpi will be very helpful for a rebuilding team's prestige and helpful for the conference rpi as a whole.
3/16/2015 4:53 PM (edited)
pkoopman
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I suppose I'm in the "balanced approach" camp. It's tough to get everyone on board with a 9 or 10 non-con win commitment, because that would mean they'd all have to commit to rejecting most challenges. I'd guess most of us are too competitive to do that year after year, even if the reward was an untouchable conference RPI. Feels too much like gaming the system. 

I've settled in to shooting for 5 to 7 games against sims I project to be in the 50 -150 RPI range (7+ rising upperclassmen is my biggest criterion). That gives me room to accept some challenges and carry on some rivalries and series with coaches I feel will help my SOS. 7-3 in non-con isn't really going to hurt your conference rpi (with the SOS described above). Getting 3 really good teams in the mix of that schedule that otherwise consists of 50-150 RPI sims could be significant for your team come tournament time, though.
3/16/2015 5:38 PM
chapelhillne
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I would play sims that will have a lot of seniors on the road. A senior heavy team will usually win a decent amount of games, and road wins help your RPI more than home wins do.
3/16/2015 6:01 PM
rednu
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Posted by hitman1979 on 3/16/2015 3:31:00 PM (view original):
Been reading more on this lately.  I feel like a lot of coaches get this wrong.

I think your best bet is to look at conferences with only a few human coaches.  These teams are usually going to end up with 20+ wins, which is going to be huge for your RPI.  Getting bashed in has it's own merits - your SOS is going to be really good, but you need to make sure you have enough wins to make the post-season.  To be honest, scheduling these bashers might actually be pretty good for the individual team, but bad for the conference.

If you can get a full conference all on the same page, then you can REALLY start to get things working in your favor.  If you get every human in the conference on board to guarantee themselves 10-0 non-conference seasons, when those teams start playing each other in conference play, everyone's RPI is going to shoot through the roof.  I've never seen a conference get fully on board with this.  Too many nay-sayers, and "selfish" scheduling.  I think it really would work.

I've recently read that you can put together a good mix, but I am afraid to try it.  Basically what you would do is schedule probably 4 road games against teams from power conferences, and the rest the mid major, mostly empty conferences.  This should really do a lot for your SOS, but you would count on probably 4-6 losses in the non-conference season.

If I want to contribute to conference RPI, though, I'm going to make sure that I go 10-0 or 9-1 in non-conference play.

I agree on this 100 percent. If you haven't read Rails' thread in the Allen forum (might have to go back a ways to find it, it's been probably 2 years now at least), it is well worth the time to dig up and read. It's been a while since I read it, but I believe they had a conference finish with 11 teams at 10-0 and the other was 9-1 in the non-con and he tracked the effects through the season. I know I've been in some leagues where the worst non-con records were 7-3 starts, and even that is awesome for the overall well-being of the league. 

As you noted though, getting 11 other humans to all agree to row in the same direction is pretty much like herding cats. 
3/16/2015 6:22 PM (edited)
hitman1979
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That thread is on the second page of Allen threads.  Just read it now and it's quite good, but as they mention in the thread, some still argue that the earth is flat.  I think long ago there was another thread, probably in the main forum, which was when I originally bought into it.  Worked well with my Iowa State team many moons ago in Knight (my one and only National Championship).
3/16/2015 7:05 PM
jsajsa
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The best way to help conference RPI is to go 10-0, period end of story. That is not necessarily the the best way to help yourself.
3/16/2015 7:29 PM
Trentonjoe
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I herd cats for a living....
3/16/2015 7:53 PM
hughesjr
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Posted by jsajsa on 3/16/2015 7:29:00 PM (view original):
The best way to help conference RPI is to go 10-0, period end of story. That is not necessarily the the best way to help yourself.
The RPI calculation is not just wins.  It is also your opponents wins and your opponents-opponents wins.

"The RPI (Rating Percentage Index) is a measure of strength of schedule and how a team does against that schedule. It does not consider margin of victory. It is used by the WCAA as one of their factors in deciding which teams to invite to the National Tournament and where to seed them.

The basic formula is 25% team winning percentage (WP), 50% opponents' average winning percentage (OWP), and 25% opponents' opponents' average winning percentage (OOWP). When calculating winning percentage (WP), the RPI weights a road win as 1.2 x a normal win, a home loss as 1.2 x a normal loss, a road loss as 0.8 x a normal loss and a home win as 0.8 x a normal win - neutral site games are not adjusted (weighted at 1.0)."

So, going 10-0 by beating ****** SIMs who are going to win 5 games is NOT going to help the conference RPI.  75% of your RPI score is the opponents winning percentage and their opponents winning percentage.  If you go 10-0 that is 1.000% or .250 to rpi .. if your opponents are 5-21 (or .2381) that is .2381 x 0.5 =  0.119 to RPI and then if the opponents opponents are also 5-21, then that is .2381 x 0.25 = 0.060 .. and your RPI is 0.429 then say all the game are away .. then .515 maximum RPI for beating ****** SIMs.  That would be 117th currently in Div-2 Naismith. So going 10-0 against ****** SIMs is not going to help your Conference RPI.

Going 10-0 against decent RPI teams who play decent RPI opponents will certainly help the Conference RPI.

                 
3/16/2015 8:23 PM (edited)
hughesjr
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Lets do a couple of comparisons:

I go 5-5 against teams that are 10-0 and their opponents are 5-5 ... so my RPI is:  .500/4 + 1.000/2 +.500/4 = 0.750 (quite good)

I go 10-0 against teams that are 2-8 and whose opponents are 5-5 .. so my RPI is 1.00/4 + .125/2 + .500/4 = 0.438 (crappy)

I go 0-10 against teams that are 10-0 and whose opponents are 5-5 .. so my RPI is  0/4 +1.000/2 + .500/4 = 0.625 .. significantly better than going 10-0 against crappy SIMs

Remember, the biggest contributor to RPI (50% of it) is your opponent's winning percentage)

3/16/2015 8:50 PM (edited)
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