biglenr Devious Weasel Tribute League Topic

Number Owner Exclusive Player Year Must Get Park Franchise/Decade Key Players Can't Use:
1 contrarian23 Kirby Puckett 1985 744 PA Coors 30-39 Browns  
2 fatboydad54 Will Clark 1993 567 PA Mile High 50-59 Athletics  
3 finn2030 Bob Johnson 1945 624 PA Hilltop 61-69 Angels  
4 schwarze Mike Griffin 1897 782 PA Kingdome 80-89 Padres Gwynn
5 jfranco77 Eddie Plank 1914 198 IP Baker Bowl 00-09 Rays  
6 trentonjoe Kid Nichols 1894 500 IP Fenway 91-99 Senators  
7 rickysdad44 Tony Gwynn 2001 112 PA Wrigley (LA) 60-69 Athletics  
8 ArlenWilliam Ed Reulbach 1912 183 IP Sicks 01-09 Senators  
9 frazzman80 Lou Gehrig 1931 782 PA Safeco 40-49 Phillies  
10 reddtrain Christy Mathewson 1915 199 IP Memorial (LA) 80-89 Mariners  
11 fire13 Jackie Robinson 1955 413 PA Ameriquest 50-59 Cubs  
12 razorclams Brooks Robinson 1975 550 PA POTF 70-79 Expos  
13 uncleal Robinson Cano 2008 634 PA Jarry 20-29 Red Sox  
14 tridentric Joe DiMaggio 1951 508 PA PNC 10-19 Athletics Plank, Collins
15 Big_T Larry Walker 1990 478 PA AFCS 40-49 Reds  
16 eastvanmungo Dom DiMaggio 1948 791 PA Redland 20-29 Braves  
17 scruffy308 Hugh Duffy 1896 744 PA South Side Park 3 20-29 White Sox Jackson, Collins
18 RWHAY Miguel Cabrera 2003 346 PA Yankee 3 2000-09 Pirates  
19 jpccr Eddie Collins 1908 386 PA OPACY 2000-09 Reds  
20 bandits5 Joe McGinnity 1908 196 IP Great American 50-59 Pirates  
21 odalisgagne Joe Jackson 1918 102 PA Orioles Park 4 00-09 Royals  
22 techmobo Mickey Mantle 1951 407 PA Griffith 30-39 Phillies  
23 redwingscup Wade Boggs 1992 598 PA Petco 30-39 Braves  
24 rmarsh915 Rod Carew 1970 204 PA Busch 2 20-29 Phillies  


5/12/2015 2:58 PM
Sitemail list: contrarian23; fatboydad54; finn2030; schwarze; jfranco77; trentonjoe; rickysdad44; ArlenWilliam; frazzman80; reddtrain; fire13; razorclams; tridentric; uncleal; Big_T; eastvanmungo; scruffy308; RWHAY; jpccr; bandits5; odalisgagne; techmobo; redwingscup; rmarsh915
5/12/2015 2:59 PM
Trash talk, whining, updates, etc can all be posted here.  If there is enough interest we can use this thread to store a blacklist for subsequent seasons and keep track of league records, etc.
5/12/2015 3:00 PM

League signup thread for season 1

 

5/12/2015 3:02 PM
Migrating the discussion for future seasons.

Ideas:
ArlenWilliam
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Let me be the first-? to suggest that after this season, we do a Round 2 with the present ringers blacklisted.

frazzman80
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Another fun suggestion would be splitting out the decades by hitters and pitchers and have an owner assign just hitters and another owner assign just pitchers. That would open up the franchise choices as well.

contrarian23
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We are done.

If there is enough interest when the season winds down I will certainly consider another season.  Blacklisting the league 1 exclusives is a good idea, as is splitting the hitters/pitchers.  Another idea is to allow owners to assign any consecutive 10-year period from a franchise, not just those from 0-9.  So, for example, you could assign someone the 1945-54 Pirates rather than just 1940-49 or 1950-59.  Each decade would still be exclusive, so anyone else who wanted to assign the Pirates would have to steer clear of those seasons.

Food for thought.

schwarze
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What about blacklisting the franchise/decade choices?  Since that decision makes up the bulk of the rosters, every subsequent version of this theme will have many of the same teams/players.  The any-10-year idea is fine, but it that idea may simply adjust a few of the common choices by a year or two, and/or may add a few new choices.  With the 24 selections blacklisted, we'd have an entirely new set of players being used.

rmarsh915
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I like schwarze idea plus I agree with Arlen. Blacklist franchise/decade picks plus the exclusive players.

frazzman80
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Posted by schwarze on 5/12/2015 5:18:00 PM (view original):
What about blacklisting the franchise/decade choices?  Since that decision makes up the bulk of the rosters, every subsequent version of this theme will have many of the same teams/players.  The any-10-year idea is fine, but it that idea may simply adjust a few of the common choices by a year or two, and/or may add a few new choices.  With the 24 selections blacklisted, we'd have an entirely new set of players being used.
It may be tough to blacklist the franchise/decade choices because there are only so many truly devious 10-year franchise windows to choose from. Eventually you'd wind up being forced to hand out quality Yankees decades.

If you are worried about the same players being seen over and over, then expand the player blacklist. Maybe make owners sign up with 2 exclusive players (a hitter and a pitcher) and that will dramatically weed out the repeats.
5/13/2015 9:05 AM
How about making a 1 million dollar minimum salary?.......I know I used 7 sub 500k guys that make my team better than it should be.
5/13/2015 9:40 AM
All good suggestions guys.  I am thrilled there may be interest in having this be a recurring theme.  Let's see how everyone is feeling about that as season plays out... if there is sufficient interest in making this an ongoing thing, I'll propose some ways to do it and we can discuss.  Feel free to keep the ideas coming.

Other things we could think about:
-- Lower cap (70M or 60M would add a LOT of strategy to thinking about your exclusive player...getting saddled with a $10M-$12M season at those caps will be a real problem)
-- MIgrating from "decade" defined as 00-09 to "any consecutive 10-year stretch of the same franchise." This would significantly open up the number of choices, we could potentially allow some overlap between choices (say max 3 seasons overlap? So if Owner A gives Owner B the 1932-41 Braves, we could still allow Owner C to give Owner D say the 1925-34 Braves).  This would also allow us to use the 1880s, the 2010s, etc.  And would be more fair because rather than the 1960s Mets (only 8 seasons to choose from) we could give someone the 1962-71 Mets (10 seasons to choose from).
-- Lower the min salary requirement for the exclusive player (currently must have at least 1 season of $7M or higher)
-- Require that each player, in addition to have at least one season with a min salary of $6M or $7M, also have at least 1 season under $1M or $2M.
-- Reduce (or increase) the number of WIS seasons required of the exclusive player
-- Get 24 owner signups and then randomize the draft order (otherwise there is a slight disincentive to sign up too early, as you get saddled with, say, the 1930s Browns.  Not that I'm bitter or anything :) )
-- Have each owner, upon joining the league, choose an exclusive player and a decade/franchise.  But instead of that owner assigning the franchise to someone, we randomly assign the 24 franchises after everyone has signed up.
-- We could randomly assign the franchises first, then have everyone choose their exclusive player (which could make for VERY interesting strategy).  We might want to make a rule that says no owner can lose more than 2-3 players from his assigned franchise/decade.
5/13/2015 12:13 PM
"It may be tough to blacklist the franchise/decade choices because there are only so many truly devious 10-year franchise windows to choose from. Eventually you'd wind up being forced to hand out quality Yankees decades.

If you are worried about the same players being seen over and over, then expand the player blacklist. Maybe make owners sign up with 2 exclusive players (a hitter and a pitcher) and that will dramatically weed out the repeats."

Expanding the player blacklist is fine, but you are talking about one player per team (or two if you add one).  The franchise/decade choice represents 96% (or 92%) of the rosters.  I'm not suggesting making a continual blacklist of decade/franchises, but maybe try it once or twice, until it's determined that what's left is too good, then start over. 

I'm not a big fan of lowering the cap and/or increasing the minimum salary per player.  There are not a lot of people who like playing in low cap leagues (including myself) and I think you'd lose a lot of people if you did that.

I do like the idea of somehow balancing out the disadvantage of picking early.  Getting to pick two players (instead of one) might help that. 
5/13/2015 1:09 PM
I like the concept of one good turn (of the screw) deserves another. How about if after you are given your ten year franchise you get to give that person one player from that period? They would have use that person with the same rules as their exclusive player. Turn about is fair play after all.




5/13/2015 5:09 PM
Excellent stuff...keep those ideas coming.
5/13/2015 5:21 PM
My thoughts:
Exclusive players (2): At least 7 seasons with at least one season over $5M. One hitter and one pitcher. Pick one and nominate one - the nominated one will be awarded randomly.
Any ten-season period for any franchise. No overlap permitted.
Reverse screw: Franchise recipient gives the franchise assignor one player from his franchise. Player must have at least 3 seasons with the franchise in the time period. That player is exclusive as well.
Allow trades of anyone except exclusive players.

5/18/2015 10:37 AM
Eligible Parks for Season Two:

Park City Team Years 1B 2B 3B HRL HRR PF
Mile High Stadium Denver, CO Colorado Rockies 1993-1994 3 1 4 2 1 1.43
Coors Field Denver, CO Colorado Rockies 1995-2014 3 3 3 4 4 1.37
Wrigley Field Los Angeles, CA Los Angeles Angels 1961-1961 3 1 -1 3 3 1.29
Oriole Park (IV) Baltimore, MD Baltimore Orioles 1901-1902 3 1 0 0 0 1.15
Baker Bowl Philadelphia, PA Philadelphia Phillies 1895-1938 0 4 1 2 1 1.14
Hilltop Park New York, NY New York Yankees 1903-1912 3 3 3 0 -3 1.14
Ameriquest Field in Arlington Arlington, TX Texas Rangers 2004-2014 2 1 2 1 1 1.14
Memorial Coliseum Los Angeles, CA Los Angeles Dodgers 1958-1961 1 2 0 2 3 1.12
Atlanta Fulton County Stadium Atlanta, GA Atlanta Braves 1966-1996 2 0 -2 3 3 1.12
Enron Field Houston, TX Houston Astros 2000-2001 0 0 2 2 1 1.10
League Park (II) Cleveland, OH Cleveland Indians 1910-1946 2 3 0 -2 -2 1.09
Fenway Park Boston, MA Boston Red Sox 1912-2014 2 4 0 1 0 1.09
Palace of the Fans Cincinnati, OH Cincinnati Reds 1902-1911 2 4 3 -3 -3 1.08
Bank One Ballpark Phoenix, AZ Arizona Diamondbacks 1998-2005 1 1 3 0 0 1.08
Sportsman's Park (III) St. Louis, MO St. Louis Cardinals 1920-1966 0 3 0 0 1 1.08
Metropolitan Stadium Minneapolis, MN Minnesota Twins 1961-1981 2 0 2 1 1 1.07
Jarry Park Montreal, QU Montreal Expos 1969-1976 2 -1 0 2 2 1.07
Yankee Stadium (III) Bronx, NY New York Yankees 2009-2014 1 -1 -3 3 4 1.07
Humphrey Metrodome Minneapolis, MN Minnesota Twins 1982-2009 0 2 2 0 0 1.07
Exhibition Stadium Toronto, ON Toronto Blue Jays 1977-1989 -2 2 2 1 1 1.07
South End Grounds III Boston, MA Boston Braves 1894-1914 2 0 1 -1 -1 1.07
Municipal Stadium Kansas City, MO Kansas City Athletics 1955-1967 1 3 3 -4 -4 1.06
Kauffman Stadium Kansas City, MO Kansas City Royals 1994-2014 1 2 3 -2 -2 1.06
Dolphin Stadium Miami, FL Florida Marlins 2006-2008 0 -1 2 -2 -2 0.94
RFK Stadium Washington, DC Washington Senators 1962-1971 -2 -1 0 -2 -2 0.94
Griffith Stadium Washington, DC Washington Senators 1911-1960 0 -1 1 -2 -2 0.94
Cleveland Stadium Cleveland, OH Cleveland Indians 1932-1993 1 -1 -2 1 1 0.94
Busch Stadium (II) St. Louis, MO St. Louis Cardinals 2006-2014 -2 -1 -1 -3 -3 0.94
American League Park (II) Washington, DC Washington Senators 1903-1910 -2 0 1 0 0 0.94
Lloyd Street Grounds Milwaukee, WI Milwaukee Brewers 1901-1901 -2 0 1 0 0 0.93
Seals Stadium San Francisco, CA San Francisco Giants 1958-1959 -1 0 0 0 -1 0.93
Sportsman's Park (II) St. Louis, MO St. Louis Browns 1902-1908 -2 0 1 0 0 0.93
Shea Stadium New York, NY New York Mets 1964-2008 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 0.93
Angel Stadium Anaheim, CA Anaheim Angels 2004-2014 -1 -1 -2 -1 -1 0.92
Memorial Stadium Baltimore, MD Baltimore Orioles 1954-1991 -1 0 -2 0 0 0.92
Citi Field Queens, NY New York Mets 2009-2014 -2 -1 1 -2 -1 0.92
Jack Murphy Stadium San Diego, CA San Diego Padres 1980-1996 0 -2 -1 0 -1 0.90
Riverfront Stadium Cincinnati, OH Cincinnati Reds 1970-1996 -2 2 0 1 1 0.90
Yankee Stadium (I) New York, NY New York Yankees 1923-1973 -2 0 1 -1 -1 0.90
South Side Park (III) Chicago, IL Chicago White Sox 1901-1910 -3 -1 1 0 0 0.90
Oakland Coliseum Oakland, CA Oakland Athletics 1968-2000 -1 -2 -2 -1 -1 0.89
Braves Field Boston, MA Boston Braves 1915-1952 -1 -1 -2 -1 0 0.89
Astrodome Houston, TX Houston Astros 1965-1999 -1 0 1 -4 -4 0.89
Safeco Field Seattle, WA Seattle Mariners 1999-2014 -2 -2 -1 -2 -2 0.88
Dodger Stadium Los Angeles, CA Los Angeles Dodgers 1962-2014 2 -4 -3 -1 -1 0.87
Colt Stadium Houston, TX Houston Colt 45's 1962-1964 -2 -1 1 -1 -1 0.87
Pacific Bell Park San Francisco, CA San Francisco Giants 2000-2003 1 0 2 -3 -3 0.86
Petco Park San Diego, CA San Diego Padres 2004-2014 -3 -3 2 -3 -3 0.82
6/8/2015 12:51 AM
Here's what I am thinking about for Season Two.  Comments welcome.

24 owners will sign up in the forums.  Upon signup, owners will nominate one position player and one pitcher.

The position player must:
-- Have at least 10 WIS-eligible seasons (seasons means seasons, not versions.  1989 Rickey Henderson is 1 season, not 4)
-- Have at least 1 season with a salary of $6M or greater

The pitcher must:
-- Have at least 10 WIS-eligible seasons
-- Have at least 1 season with a salary of $7M or greater

All exclusive players from season 1 will be blacklisted. This blacklist only applies for the purposes of selecting the 24 exclusive position players and 24 exclusive pitchers for season 2.  Once all players have been chosen, and franchise-decades have been assigned, owners CAN use any season 1 blacklist player on their rosters.  Owners CAN NOT use anyone else's season 2 exclusive players on their rosters. So for example, since Kirby Puckett was an exclusive player in season 1, he may not be nominated as an exclusive player in season 2.  However, if someone is assigned the 1976-1985 Twins as their franchise decade in round 5 of the draft (described below), they MAY use Puckett if they so choose.

Once 24 owners are in and all exclusive players have been nominated, we will have a 6 round serpentine draft, with random order generated from random.org (I will ask a well known HOF owner who is not in the league to generate the draft order.)

The draft will proceed as follows:
Round 1 (1-24) Select your exclusive position player from the list of 24 

Round 2 (24-1) In this round you will do two things.  You will select your exclusive pitcher, and you will assign a season for the exclusive position player for the owner who drafts after you.  So owner 24, drafting first in this round, will assign a season for the exclusive position player chosen by owner 23 in round 1. Owner 1, drafting last in this round, will assign a season for the exclusive position player chosen by owner 24 in round 1.

Round 3 (1-24)  Assign a season for the exclusive pitcher for the owner who drafts after you.  So owner 1, drafting first in this round, will assign a season for the exclusive pitcher chosen by owner 2 in round 2. Owner 24, drafting last in this round, will assign a season for the exclusive pitcher chosen by owner 1 in round 2.

Round 4 (24-1) Assign an exclusive park (from the above list) to the owner who drafts 12 slots after you.  So owner 24, drafting first in this round, will assign an exclusive park to owner 12.  Owner 23 will assign a park to owner 11, etc.  Owner 12 will assign a park to owner 24, owner 11 will assign to owner 23, etc.

At this point we will have done four rounds, and each owner will have screwed 2 other owners, and been screwed by them in return.

Round 5 (1-24) Assign an exclusive franchise-decade to an owner of your choice.  Obviously each owner can only be assigned 1 franchise-decade.  So owner 1, drafting first in this round, will assign an exclusive franchise-decade to any owner he chooses.  Owner 2 will pick another owner and do the same, etc.  

For this round we will allow owners to choose any 10-consecutive-year period (from 1885-2014) for the franchise they assign. The franchise must have been active for all 10 of those seasons. We will use www.baseball-reference.com as the definitive source for franchise lineage.  Again, franchise-decades are exclusive; there can be no overlap with any other franchise-decade.

But choose carefully, because in round 6 turnabout once again becomes fair play.

Round 6 (order does not matter). The owner to which you have assigned a franchise-decade may choose any player-season from that franchise-decade and assign it back to you. You must roster this player, and he must get at least as many PA/162 (or IP/162 if a pitcher) as he had in real life.  

So for example, if in round 5 an owner assigns me the 1976-85 Twins, I can choose in round 6 to assign him 1985 Kirby Puckett in return.  He must then use '85 Puckett, and Kirby must get 744 PA for him, or else his team is ineligible for the playoffs.

After that, rules will be the same as season 1:
- No AAA, No WW, No trades, No DH, No Clones, no live play
- injuries on
- Random realignment
- $80m cap
- Your THREE exclusive players (the position player you chose, the pitcher you chose, and the player who was assigned to you in round 6) ALL must meet or exceed their real-life PA/162 or IP/162 totals.  If any of the three fail to do so, your team is ineligible for the playoffs.  In the event a team wins enough games to make the playoffs, but any of their exclusive players fail to match/exceed their PA/162 or IP/162, the forfeited playoff spot will go to the team with the next-best record from the same league (most wins not already in the playoffs). Tiebreaker will be Expected Winning Percentage as found in the advanced standings…so a small but important incentive for no one to play silly games with fatigued players.  In the extremely unlikely event that we still have a tie, we will use random.org to decide the winner.

6/8/2015 1:36 AM
We need a rule to prevent self-assignment in round 5 -- especially if a person is picking 24th and hasn't been picked, that needs to be clarified to not be possible.

Is it not possible to have WIS schedule tiebreakers to break ties for a playoff spot after teams are declared ineligible, just as they would for the actual first place teams?

Not totally sure it's wise to allow 19th century options because of inning imbalance/roster construction issues, unless a 200K exception is granted. (I know I stayed away from 19th century teams in juice's current tournament for this exact reason -- they don't play nicely with the same caps as 1901+ teams.)
6/15/2015 12:01 AM (edited)
biglenr Devious Weasel Tribute League Topic

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