Appreciate all the Obvious work Seble did on this....Please go back and fix the old system of job firings, and decent recruit generation...not where a Div 3 team can get a ...whether worthy of not....#17 PF ranked Div 1 prospect with no effort. I get a Div 1 International for only a Scholly..not sure that was sent since no communication.

This is a work in progress as any Beta is....it fails...way too many flaws

way too time consuming....people have lives other than programers lives

I agree - I like the new layout and appreciate all the hard work but this new recruiting system is more jacked up than the current one. Lets make some minor changes or tweaks to our existing recruiting structure and improve things, but not blow it up.

The new system has me re-thinking carrying 5 teams.

this new system is happening. whether it works or not...

Posted by dacj501 on 6/13/2016 6:28:00 PM (view original):
this new system is happening. whether it works or not...

yep

Posted by dacj501 on 6/13/2016 6:28:00 PM (view original):
this new system is happening. whether it works or not...

unfortunately true

Posted by taniajane on 6/13/2016 6:13:00 PM (view original):
Appreciate all the Obvious work Seble did on this....Please go back and fix the old system of job firings, and decent recruit generation...not where a Div 3 team can get a ...whether worthy of not....#17 PF ranked Div 1 prospect with no effort. I get a Div 1 International for only a Scholly..not sure that was sent since no communication.

This is a work in progress as any Beta is....it fails...way too many flaws

way too time consuming....people have lives other than programers lives

what is too time consuming? recruiting in general, or beta testing? i agree with the former, but not the latter.

anyway, i think as far as beta testing goes, this has been pretty par-for-the-course. there are a bunch of issues, but that is virtually guaranteed going into early beta. where i work, we've had to go through a half dozen rounds of beta testing for certain releases, sometimes more. this is not unusual for the software industry. its not just small companies either, i mean look at windows vista, the most powerful software company of all time spent billions of dollars, and still went LIVE with the biggest pile of **** we've ever seen.

i am the first to say, i don't support this approach of making a massive update after years of radio silence and disasters on the books for previous major updates. i was pretty vocal in my opposition, seble set himself up for failure, its a terrible business move. absolutely should have went for a faith-and-morale building smaller update, scored some easy wins. if he kept showing his face around here throughout that process, he'd be going into this massive update in a much different place than he is. also, i agree there are pretty many flaws in this beta - it would probably kill the game if released as-is, the game simply cannot survive another debacle like potential and new engine rewrite releases, this one can't go out with sniping and broad dissatisfaction about signing logic and the like. but seble has been willing to listen, and although he is far from done polishing, he hasn't indicated he thinks he is. he's stated hes overwhelmed by the feedback and needs more time to process. he's made changes and is soliciting further feedback. this is a small company, seble is working on a product that does not generate meaningful profit, and its unreasonable to expect the beta to have gone dramatically more smoothly than it has.

frankly, my hat is off to seble for how he has handled this beta process. that does not change any of the above, but still, give credit where its due.

Posted by gillispie1 on 6/13/2016 7:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by taniajane on 6/13/2016 6:13:00 PM (view original):
Appreciate all the Obvious work Seble did on this....Please go back and fix the old system of job firings, and decent recruit generation...not where a Div 3 team can get a ...whether worthy of not....#17 PF ranked Div 1 prospect with no effort. I get a Div 1 International for only a Scholly..not sure that was sent since no communication.

This is a work in progress as any Beta is....it fails...way too many flaws

way too time consuming....people have lives other than programers lives

what is too time consuming? recruiting in general, or beta testing? i agree with the former, but not the latter.

anyway, i think as far as beta testing goes, this has been pretty par-for-the-course. there are a bunch of issues, but that is virtually guaranteed going into early beta. where i work, we've had to go through a half dozen rounds of beta testing for certain releases, sometimes more. this is not unusual for the software industry. its not just small companies either, i mean look at windows vista, the most powerful software company of all time spent billions of dollars, and still went LIVE with the biggest pile of **** we've ever seen.

i am the first to say, i don't support this approach of making a massive update after years of radio silence and disasters on the books for previous major updates. i was pretty vocal in my opposition, seble set himself up for failure, its a terrible business move. absolutely should have went for a faith-and-morale building smaller update, scored some easy wins. if he kept showing his face around here throughout that process, he'd be going into this massive update in a much different place than he is. also, i agree there are pretty many flaws in this beta - it would probably kill the game if released as-is, the game simply cannot survive another debacle like potential and new engine rewrite releases, this one can't go out with sniping and broad dissatisfaction about signing logic and the like. but seble has been willing to listen, and although he is far from done polishing, he hasn't indicated he thinks he is. he's stated hes overwhelmed by the feedback and needs more time to process. he's made changes and is soliciting further feedback. this is a small company, seble is working on a product that does not generate meaningful profit, and its unreasonable to expect the beta to have gone dramatically more smoothly than it has.

frankly, my hat is off to seble for how he has handled this beta process. that does not change any of the above, but still, give credit where its due.

I agree 100%. Hopefully past rollouts and beta are not an indication of what will happen this time...

I don't like recruiting. There are lot of things to fix. I wish instead of polls, he'd go 1 by 1 and decide on what to do. EES is a problem. I lost a player, found my way to new money but nothing to recruit really, except one guy I don't want to scout fully because we all jumped on him.

I think D3 and D2 need caps. And recruiting a player is not hey I sent you a note you dude first division, it's 5 attention points or something like this, don't call me, here is your scholly, just sign. Oh by the way, you are projected D1 but I am actually D3... Come anyways, you suck.

Posted by gvsujulius on 6/13/2016 6:20:00 PM (view original):
I agree - I like the new layout and appreciate all the hard work but this new recruiting system is more jacked up than the current one. Lets make some minor changes or tweaks to our existing recruiting structure and improve things, but not blow it up.

The new system has me re-thinking carrying 5 teams.

yes, this is what many people want! Just a note I think 95% of people want scouting (but not recruiting) during the season and 99% of people want changes related to job changes. Seble, please swallow your pride and listen to the customers!

Maybe I had an advantage by not having any preconceived notions based on how HD "used to be" or what Seble did or didn't "used to do." Maybe it was just coming at it with an open mind, but I kind of like the beta overall. There are details that were changed where I liked the change and details I would still like to see changed, of course. But overall it has promise.

I think that WIS will lose a lot of money on this update, in customers lost, people downsizing teams, and time wasted by their 1 worker on this project. This new recruiting system is way more confusing than the old one, and it takes up way more time. People will end up neglecting some of their teams because of the increased time investment, and they will decide to drop a few teams. Some people will hate the thought of learning a new system and will quit. Some people will never come back from the 1-2 month pause. Some people will try a season or 2 of the new system and quit. Some people will try a dozen seasons, see that they are playing against like 10 guys and quit. This leaves us in a HD wasteland filled only with the crappy coaches who consistantly don't make the NT and go under .500. Those kind of players is what this update is meant for, the guys who don't have the will to tough it out and fight their way up.

I have just recently gotten to D1 in one of my 3 worlds. I have a low D1 team, have had 1 D1 appearance and 1 bad season where I had no upperclassmen. I just got in to the NT again going 29-0. I know I am going to have to stay another season or 2 to move up to a decent team, making it something like 12 seasons in total. My D2 team just went to the Elite 8 for the first time ever with only 2 seniors, after only having 1 NT win across all worlds. My D3 team is having a great season and I am projecting a win or 2 in the NT.

My point in saying that is I have payed my dues, I have gotten good at this game, I have made my programs competitive. I don't want to have all my progress go to waste with this new system that is supposed to "shake things up".

I am am in the beta world and to be honest, I haven't been paying my full attention to it. Part of that is that it isn't connected to my normal team list, part of that is the new mobile site for that (I really hate the new look, it's so bunched together and hard to use, if they got rid of that and went back to the old look I think I would be less annoyed by this update), and part of that is that recruiting is so damn confusing and actually a big part of that is the new website look, I can't even find players that i recruited, scouted, targeted etc, and part of it is that it is so time consuming, they are basically turning it into NCAA football 14' recruiting, which I hated btw, and always simmed past it because I didn't want to waste 20 minutes of my life each week of the fake season. I play solely on my IPhone, I don't know if it's the same on the computer or not but it really ****** me off.

I am hoping that they fix some stuff, mainly the website look. I am going to hate the pause, especially since it is in the summer when my schedule will open up a bit so I could pay a little more attention to my teams. I think that this is going to hurt the game in general, and it is going to hurt WIS. They are clearly going to lose money on this, I dont know why they think making people spend more time on each team is a good business model, you want people to have more available time to spend on more teams, instead of 1 team taking up so much time that you have to drop some. I don't know why they think it's smart to **** off all of their loyal long time customers that have spent so much money on their product and payed their salaries. I don't know why they decided to waste man hours on a recruiting update that nobody was calling for. I don't think they are going to gain any customers because of this update but maybe I am wrong. All in all I see this as a stupid business decision by WIS.

I think I will stay a few seasons into this new system and see how it turns out, but I fear the worst and hope for the best.

I have remained fairly silent on the forums recently and I am predicting that my coming out rant will insight many counter rants. Commence

Oh I forgot to mention all of the money WIS will lose in the 2 month lay off.

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 6/13/2016 9:39:00 PM (view original):
I think that WIS will lose a lot of money on this update, in customers lost, people downsizing teams, and time wasted by their 1 worker on this project. This new recruiting system is way more confusing than the old one, and it takes up way more time. People will end up neglecting some of their teams because of the increased time investment, and they will decide to drop a few teams. Some people will hate the thought of learning a new system and will quit. Some people will never come back from the 1-2 month pause. Some people will try a season or 2 of the new system and quit. Some people will try a dozen seasons, see that they are playing against like 10 guys and quit. This leaves us in a HD wasteland filled only with the crappy coaches who consistantly don't make the NT and go under .500. Those kind of players is what this update is meant for, the guys who don't have the will to tough it out and fight their way up.

I have just recently gotten to D1 in one of my 3 worlds. I have a low D1 team, have had 1 D1 appearance and 1 bad season where I had no upperclassmen. I just got in to the NT again going 29-0. I know I am going to have to stay another season or 2 to move up to a decent team, making it something like 12 seasons in total. My D2 team just went to the Elite 8 for the first time ever with only 2 seniors, after only having 1 NT win across all worlds. My D3 team is having a great season and I am projecting a win or 2 in the NT.

My point in saying that is I have payed my dues, I have gotten good at this game, I have made my programs competitive. I don't want to have all my progress go to waste with this new system that is supposed to "shake things up".

I am am in the beta world and to be honest, I haven't been paying my full attention to it. Part of that is that it isn't connected to my normal team list, part of that is the new mobile site for that (I really hate the new look, it's so bunched together and hard to use, if they got rid of that and went back to the old look I think I would be less annoyed by this update), and part of that is that recruiting is so damn confusing and actually a big part of that is the new website look, I can't even find players that i recruited, scouted, targeted etc, and part of it is that it is so time consuming, they are basically turning it into NCAA football 14' recruiting, which I hated btw, and always simmed past it because I didn't want to waste 20 minutes of my life each week of the fake season. I play solely on my IPhone, I don't know if it's the same on the computer or not but it really ****** me off.

I am hoping that they fix some stuff, mainly the website look. I am going to hate the pause, especially since it is in the summer when my schedule will open up a bit so I could pay a little more attention to my teams. I think that this is going to hurt the game in general, and it is going to hurt WIS. They are clearly going to lose money on this, I dont know why they think making people spend more time on each team is a good business model, you want people to have more available time to spend on more teams, instead of 1 team taking up so much time that you have to drop some. I don't know why they think it's smart to **** off all of their loyal long time customers that have spent so much money on their product and payed their salaries. I don't know why they decided to waste man hours on a recruiting update that nobody was calling for. I don't think they are going to gain any customers because of this update but maybe I am wrong. All in all I see this as a stupid business decision by WIS.

I think I will stay a few seasons into this new system and see how it turns out, but I fear the worst and hope for the best.

I have remained fairly silent on the forums recently and I am predicting that my coming out rant will insight many counter rants. Commence

You may get some counter rants but this is well said in my humble opinion.

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 6/13/2016 9:39:00 PM (view original):
I think that WIS will lose a lot of money on this update, in customers lost, people downsizing teams, and time wasted by their 1 worker on this project. This new recruiting system is way more confusing than the old one, and it takes up way more time. People will end up neglecting some of their teams because of the increased time investment, and they will decide to drop a few teams. Some people will hate the thought of learning a new system and will quit. Some people will never come back from the 1-2 month pause. Some people will try a season or 2 of the new system and quit. Some people will try a dozen seasons, see that they are playing against like 10 guys and quit. This leaves us in a HD wasteland filled only with the crappy coaches who consistantly don't make the NT and go under .500. Those kind of players is what this update is meant for, the guys who don't have the will to tough it out and fight their way up.

I have just recently gotten to D1 in one of my 3 worlds. I have a low D1 team, have had 1 D1 appearance and 1 bad season where I had no upperclassmen. I just got in to the NT again going 29-0. I know I am going to have to stay another season or 2 to move up to a decent team, making it something like 12 seasons in total. My D2 team just went to the Elite 8 for the first time ever with only 2 seniors, after only having 1 NT win across all worlds. My D3 team is having a great season and I am projecting a win or 2 in the NT.

My point in saying that is I have payed my dues, I have gotten good at this game, I have made my programs competitive. I don't want to have all my progress go to waste with this new system that is supposed to "shake things up".

I am am in the beta world and to be honest, I haven't been paying my full attention to it. Part of that is that it isn't connected to my normal team list, part of that is the new mobile site for that (I really hate the new look, it's so bunched together and hard to use, if they got rid of that and went back to the old look I think I would be less annoyed by this update), and part of that is that recruiting is so damn confusing and actually a big part of that is the new website look, I can't even find players that i recruited, scouted, targeted etc, and part of it is that it is so time consuming, they are basically turning it into NCAA football 14' recruiting, which I hated btw, and always simmed past it because I didn't want to waste 20 minutes of my life each week of the fake season. I play solely on my IPhone, I don't know if it's the same on the computer or not but it really ****** me off.

I am hoping that they fix some stuff, mainly the website look. I am going to hate the pause, especially since it is in the summer when my schedule will open up a bit so I could pay a little more attention to my teams. I think that this is going to hurt the game in general, and it is going to hurt WIS. They are clearly going to lose money on this, I dont know why they think making people spend more time on each team is a good business model, you want people to have more available time to spend on more teams, instead of 1 team taking up so much time that you have to drop some. I don't know why they think it's smart to **** off all of their loyal long time customers that have spent so much money on their product and payed their salaries. I don't know why they decided to waste man hours on a recruiting update that nobody was calling for. I don't think they are going to gain any customers because of this update but maybe I am wrong. All in all I see this as a stupid business decision by WIS.

I think I will stay a few seasons into this new system and see how it turns out, but I fear the worst and hope for the best.

I have remained fairly silent on the forums recently and I am predicting that my coming out rant will insight many counter rants. Commence

+1

Posted by MonsterTurtl on 6/13/2016 9:39:00 PM (view original):
I think that WIS will lose a lot of money on this update, in customers lost, people downsizing teams, and time wasted by their 1 worker on this project. This new recruiting system is way more confusing than the old one, and it takes up way more time. People will end up neglecting some of their teams because of the increased time investment, and they will decide to drop a few teams. Some people will hate the thought of learning a new system and will quit. Some people will never come back from the 1-2 month pause. Some people will try a season or 2 of the new system and quit. Some people will try a dozen seasons, see that they are playing against like 10 guys and quit. This leaves us in a HD wasteland filled only with the crappy coaches who consistantly don't make the NT and go under .500. Those kind of players is what this update is meant for, the guys who don't have the will to tough it out and fight their way up.

I have just recently gotten to D1 in one of my 3 worlds. I have a low D1 team, have had 1 D1 appearance and 1 bad season where I had no upperclassmen. I just got in to the NT again going 29-0. I know I am going to have to stay another season or 2 to move up to a decent team, making it something like 12 seasons in total. My D2 team just went to the Elite 8 for the first time ever with only 2 seniors, after only having 1 NT win across all worlds. My D3 team is having a great season and I am projecting a win or 2 in the NT.

My point in saying that is I have payed my dues, I have gotten good at this game, I have made my programs competitive. I don't want to have all my progress go to waste with this new system that is supposed to "shake things up".

I am am in the beta world and to be honest, I haven't been paying my full attention to it. Part of that is that it isn't connected to my normal team list, part of that is the new mobile site for that (I really hate the new look, it's so bunched together and hard to use, if they got rid of that and went back to the old look I think I would be less annoyed by this update), and part of that is that recruiting is so damn confusing and actually a big part of that is the new website look, I can't even find players that i recruited, scouted, targeted etc, and part of it is that it is so time consuming, they are basically turning it into NCAA football 14' recruiting, which I hated btw, and always simmed past it because I didn't want to waste 20 minutes of my life each week of the fake season. I play solely on my IPhone, I don't know if it's the same on the computer or not but it really ****** me off.

I am hoping that they fix some stuff, mainly the website look. I am going to hate the pause, especially since it is in the summer when my schedule will open up a bit so I could pay a little more attention to my teams. I think that this is going to hurt the game in general, and it is going to hurt WIS. They are clearly going to lose money on this, I dont know why they think making people spend more time on each team is a good business model, you want people to have more available time to spend on more teams, instead of 1 team taking up so much time that you have to drop some. I don't know why they think it's smart to **** off all of their loyal long time customers that have spent so much money on their product and payed their salaries. I don't know why they decided to waste man hours on a recruiting update that nobody was calling for. I don't think they are going to gain any customers because of this update but maybe I am wrong. All in all I see this as a stupid business decision by WIS.

I think I will stay a few seasons into this new system and see how it turns out, but I fear the worst and hope for the best.

I have remained fairly silent on the forums recently and I am predicting that my coming out rant will insight many counter rants. Commence

*applause*

And I'll build on what you said -- they've already lost money on this project. I used to carry 5-6 teams...downsized to 1 when I made the move to Hawai'i...picked one team back up with the intent to climb back to my former number of clubs, then caught wind of the recruiting changes and remembered both the former issues here with the last engine change (where we were all basically paying to beta test the system for 2-3 seasons) and the debacle of GD's shift to v2.0 (which completely undid years of what everyone had learned on how to win the game and left a great many wondering if the programmers had ever watched a football game in their lives...). I've waited grabbing teams in my old worlds specifically to see how this change was being handled.

As things look now, it is very unlikely that I would grab another team. I'm honestly not certain I can handle the time constraints of carrying two teams given how rushed I've felt in the beta (admittedly, some of that could be the accelerated schedule where recruiting and signings are done simultaneously...but that's also without me even bothering to scout my future opponents and set lineups and game strategies, too.