What would convince you that white privilege exists?

Nothing because it doesn't.

Being white is one factor out of many. Would you agree that attractive people have a privilege over those who are less attractive? Same with athletic people in sports. I see it in kids as young as six. Parents, coaches and other kids gravitate toward those who excel. There is no "privilege" for being white. Skin tone is just one very minor factor.

Yes, I would agree to both of those things.

But if you are going to be close minded, and absolutely nothing can change your mind, then it is pointless to have this discussion. I am open minded. If you make good arguments, you can change my mind.

If skin tone is a factor, then you have an advantage.

TRUE/FALSE:
White people do better on average than black people.

TRUE/FALSE:
If you are white, you have deep, systematic advantages over black people.

Posted by tangplay on 5/3/2018 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Yes, I would agree to both of those things.

But if you are going to be close minded, and absolutely nothing can change your mind, then it is pointless to have this discussion. I am open minded. If you make good arguments, you can change my mind.

You just agreed with me?

Skin color is just one minor factor? What else do you want to know? I have converted you yet again.

You are welcome.

Posted by tangplay on 5/3/2018 10:39:00 AM (view original):
If skin tone is a factor, then you have an advantage.

TRUE/FALSE:
White people do better on average than black people.

TRUE/FALSE:
If you are white, you have deep, systematic advantages over black people.

False: Depending on what and where and how? What do you mean by better? As we discussed black people with two parents do substantially better than white persons with one parent. Is there racism still? Absolutely but I don't think I have an advantage because I experience less racism. Perhaps it makes the black person more resilient? I experience bigotry frequently because of my Jewish heritage and it has made me more thick skinned. On a minor note I also have a disadvantage when playing hoops as I am only 5'10. I had to work that much harder to have the skill set to play with high level players. One would argue that taller people may have an advantage or a privilege.

False: You actually have to do better to get into certain schools and academies.

Here is where the advantage is and I don't have it being a 2nd generation immigrant but whites who are 4th or 5th generation have inherited wealth so they pay less for a house, car, etc. as money trickles down. Because blacks were so mistreated for so long they are in the same boat as me 2nd and maybe some 3rd generation monies. That does hurt and it does negatively impact them and I would argue unfairly. I am not sure what those reparations should be.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/3/2018 11:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/3/2018 10:37:00 AM (view original):
Yes, I would agree to both of those things.

But if you are going to be close minded, and absolutely nothing can change your mind, then it is pointless to have this discussion. I am open minded. If you make good arguments, you can change my mind.

You just agreed with me?

Skin color is just one minor factor? What else do you want to know? I have converted you yet again.

You are welcome.

No, I agreed that attractive and athletic people have an advantage.

Are you saying Whites are more attractive and athletic than African Americans? Is that their privilege?

No.

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/3/2018 11:37:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tangplay on 5/3/2018 10:39:00 AM (view original):
If skin tone is a factor, then you have an advantage.

TRUE/FALSE:
White people do better on average than black people.

TRUE/FALSE:
If you are white, you have deep, systematic advantages over black people.

False: Depending on what and where and how? What do you mean by better? As we discussed black people with two parents do substantially better than white persons with one parent. Is there racism still? Absolutely but I don't think I have an advantage because I experience less racism. Perhaps it makes the black person more resilient? I experience bigotry frequently because of my Jewish heritage and it has made me more thick skinned. On a minor note I also have a disadvantage when playing hoops as I am only 5'10. I had to work that much harder to have the skill set to play with high level players. One would argue that taller people may have an advantage or a privilege.

False: You actually have to do better to get into certain schools and academies.

Here is where the advantage is and I don't have it being a 2nd generation immigrant but whites who are 4th or 5th generation have inherited wealth so they pay less for a house, car, etc. as money trickles down. Because blacks were so mistreated for so long they are in the same boat as me 2nd and maybe some 3rd generation monies. That does hurt and it does negatively impact them and I would argue unfairly. I am not sure what those reparations should be.

I mean that white people are, on average, better off financially. And you absolutely have an advantage, not because of the blatant racism and hate today, but because, as you said, of the past, and the drug war and the police and justice system being biased. Perhaps not intentionally but it is there. And yes, taller people do have a systematic advantage in basketball.

No, the second one is true because of everything else. I already said I was not for AA.

There you go. You are getting closer. That's the redlining and wealth gap stuff I was talking about. What we do to fix it is equalize opportunity, not outcome. I have posted my list of solutions multiple times and I can do it again if you want.

We are making progress. See what happens when you don't insult and use rational thought?

I think the opportunities have been equalized but the culture needs amending. 70% single parent rate is unfathomable and unsustainable. I don't care what race you are. The Government needs to somehow not reward people who ask for assistance because they became a single parent. I don't know how to control that w/o taking away basic human rights in terms of having kids. Of course we need a license to drive and get married but to have kids...no rules.

That is the real issue here. The stereotype is that poor people not just African Americans, abuse the system and our Government just hands the monies to them. This is where the vitriol is coming from. There are of course many advantages and disadvantages. One being gender. Finally there is more equality and I am all for that as I have two daughters.

In terms of race, at least here in MA it is not a factor so I do not believe that being white gives me any privilege or advantage. But that is my POV. I do think that it is not healthy using terminology such as "white privilege". Being white is something I cannot control. Same as being tall.

Also note that worldwide poorer people tend to have more kids. I guess they have more time on their hands. IDK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrxZRuL65wQ

Posted by cccp1014 on 5/3/2018 12:58:00 PM (view original):
I think the opportunities have been equalized but the culture needs amending. 70% single parent rate is unfathomable and unsustainable. I don't care what race you are. The Government needs to somehow not reward people who ask for assistance because they became a single parent. I don't know how to control that w/o taking away basic human rights in terms of having kids. Of course we need a license to drive and get married but to have kids...no rules.

That is the real issue here. The stereotype is that poor people not just African Americans, abuse the system and our Government just hands the monies to them. This is where the vitriol is coming from. There are of course many advantages and disadvantages. One being gender. Finally there is more equality and I am all for that as I have two daughters.

In terms of race, at least here in MA it is not a factor so I do not believe that being white gives me any privilege or advantage. But that is my POV. I do think that it is not healthy using terminology such as "white privilege". Being white is something I cannot control. Same as being tall.

Here's how you fix that, Boris. You stop promoting dumb abstinance-only programs and teach kids how to get consent and put on a damn condom! When you say 'sex is bad', you encourage kids to 'defy the man' and do it anyway - unprotected! Abstinance is perfectly fine, but when you don't teach kids ANYTHING other than 'sex is bad', you encourage stats like that. That's how you solve the teen parent and the single parent problem. Also, the drug and jail thing may feed that.... It all blends together.

Do you have any hard proof that a majority of people abuse the system, or is this just a hypothetical that, in reality, almost never happens. Like Voter Fraud. I know a lot of people that certainly don't abuse the system.

MA is pretty good about that but in other places it is worse. It isn't a bad thing to be white! This isn't demeaning to white people at all! White privledge and institutional racism are linked. Think of it as racism.