'97 Bonds, Pirates in Franchise w/ Farm System Topic

We'll have the Pittsburgh Pirates franchise available starting with 1997 in the Franchise With Farm System. The basic concept of the league is that each franchise gets the rookies who debuted with that franchise (at least based on their first WIS-eligible season). The Pirates have Barry Bonds and a lot of other good players already, and get rookies like Tony Womack in 1997, Aramis Ramirez in 1998, Kris Benson in 1999, and Bronson Arroyo in 2000. The draft consists of rookies from Colorado, Florida, San Diego, San Francisco, Toronto, Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Detroit, along with players who were cut. Arizona and Tampa Bay will be added to that list. The draft formula favors teams that had bad seasons in real-life, so the Pirates have a long stretch (through 2012) where they will be positioned for high draft picks. Their current roster is very strong (Bonds, Olerud, Jason Kendall, Denny Neagle, etc.).

The current season ends March 15, so the 1997 draft starts off the clock around then. If you claim the team ahead of time, I'll give you forum access to start negotiating any potential trades if you want. Their roster has an excess of 1B, OF, and SP, and one owner has already mentioned wanting to trade a SS for one of the SP.
2/23/2020 11:26 PM
25 keepers are allowed from this list, including whichever of the Pittsburgh 1997 rookies you want to keep.
C 1997 Jason Kendall R 572 486 8 49 18-6 53-49 60.8 .294 .391 .434 B/A+ $5,034,618
1B 1997 John Olerud L 630 524 22 102 0-0 67-85 23.8 .294 .400 .489 A-/A $5,760,341
2B 1997 Tony Womack L 689 641 6 50 60-7 109-43 106.8 .278 .326 .374 C/B- $4,386,328
3B click to draft
SS 1997 Kevin Polcovich R 279 245 4 21 2-2 45-21 61.3 .273 .350 .396 B-/B $2,017,318
OF 1997 Al Martin L 477 423 13 59 23-7 83-45 32.5 .291 .359 .473 D/D- $3,057,345
OF 1997 Barry Bonds L 690 532 40 101 37-8 87-145 13.3 .291 .446 .585 B/C- $7,151,306
OF 1997 Orlando Merced L 420 368 9 40 7-3 62-47 40.9 .266 .352 .413 B/B- $2,846,123
OF 1997 Carl Everett S 487 443 14 57 17-9 102-32 31.6 .248 .308 .420 C-/D+ $2,563,562
1B 1997 Kevin Young R 362 333 18 74 11-2 89-16 18.5 .300 .332 .535 A/D+ $2,628,770
C 1997 Brent Mayne L 282 256 6 22 1-0 33-18 42.7 .289 .343 .406 A/B $1,803,106
Util click to draft
1B 1997 Jeff King R 652 547 28 112 16-5 96-89 19.4 .238 .341 .451 A/B- $4,507,034
OF 1997 Jose Guillen R 526 498 14 70 1-2 88-17 35.6 .267 .300 .412 D/D $2,487,813
Util optional
OF 1997 Emil Brown R 112 95 2 6 5-1 32-10 47.5 .179 .304 .284 D/D- $465,238
OF 1997 Adrian Brown S 167 147 1 10 8-4 18-13 147.0 .190 .273 .252 B+/C- $763,568
2B 1997 Carlos Garcia R 381 350 3 23 11-3 60-15 116.7 .220 .253 .309 B/D+ $1,597,250
2B 1997 Mariano Duncan R 179 172 1 13 2-1 39-6 172.0 .244 .270 .308 B/D $704,955
Batting Totals 6905 6060 189 809 219-60 1063-651 32.0 .269 .347 .431 B-/C $47,774,675
SP 1997 Denny Neagle L 20-5-0 234 2.97 .233 1.08 6.63 1.89 0.69 172-49 $7,241,933
SP/RP 1997 Tim Wakefield R 12-15-0 202 4.25 .256 1.39 6.75 3.89 1.07 151-87 $4,129,279
SP/RP 1997 Jon Lieber R 11-14-0 189 4.49 .263 1.30 7.65 2.44 1.10 160-51 $4,156,867
SP/RP 1997 Mark Petkovsek R 4-7-2 96 5.06 .292 1.46 4.78 2.91 1.31 51-31 $1,421,682
SP/RP 1997 Dan Miceli R 3-2-3 83 5.01 .248 1.39 8.60 4.14 1.42 79-38 $1,659,494
SP/RP 1997 Buddy Groom L 2-2-3 65 5.15 .292 1.53 6.26 3.34 1.25 45-24 $997,732
SP/RP 1997 Woody Williams R 9-14-0 195 4.35 .269 1.37 5.73 3.05 1.43 124-66 $3,746,559
SP/RP 1997 Esteban Loaiza R 11-11-0 197 4.13 .279 1.38 5.59 2.57 0.78 122-56 $4,033,510
SP/RP 1997 Greg Swindell L 7-4-1 116 3.58 .238 1.10 5.84 1.95 0.93 75-25 $3,197,543
SP/RP 1997 Francisco Cordova R 11-8-0 179 3.63 .259 1.25 6.10 2.47 0.71 121-49 $4,124,929
SP/RP 1997 Stan Belinda R 1-5-1 100 3.71 .229 1.18 10.33 2.99 1.00 114-33 $2,568,592
SP/RP 1997 Chris Peters L 2-2-0 38 4.58 .277 1.58 4.10 5.06 1.45 17-21 $431,044
SP/RP 1997 Shawn Estes L 19-5-0 201 3.18 .223 1.30 8.10 4.48 0.54 181-100 $5,489,952
Pitching Totals 112-94-10 1,895 3.98 .256 1.30 6.73 3.00 0.97 1412-630 $43,199,116
Draft Center Notes

I didn't have room in the main draft center to list all the available pitchers.

For reference, I have both Seattle and Atlanta in this league, and their 1997 payrolls ($67 M and $83 M) do not come close to Pittsburgh's.
2/23/2020 11:33 PM
Original league rules are copied below and edited for subsequent changes. Most of these have to do with how the league was started. The main things now are the franchise's rookies, the draft, and 25-man keeper lists:

Concept: Start with 24 20 of the real franchises and their 1977 rosters. In subsequent seasons, each franchise gets the rookies who really came up with that team. For example, Oakland gets Dwayne Murphy and others in 1978, Rickey Henderson and others in 1979, etc, eventually getting McGwire and Canseco... The rookies are assigned based on their first team during their first WIS-eligible season. This is a WIS version of mimicking the real-life farm systems for each franchise.

Contraction Draft and Rookie Drafts: For the two six franchises that are not claimed in 1977, their players are all eligible for an initial draft - sort of a "contraction draft" compared to the real-life 1977. In subsequent seasons, their rookies are draft eligible. So for example if no one selects the Detroit Tigers franchise, then Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell, and Lance Parrish will all be draft-eligible in 1978. The contraction draft will go in reverse order of the franchises' real-life 1977 winning percentages, or maybe a composite 1977-1981 winning percentage - that can be discussed after we get enough owners signed up. Edit: Reverse order (worst to first) of a franchise's total wins, 1977-1981, with 1977 double counted.

Obviously the rookie draft will never be very deep, since the rookies will only come from two six franchises until the expansions of 1993 and beyond. Rookie draft order will be set by your franchise's sim winning percentage compared to its real-life winning percentage. If your team over-performs compared to real-life, it gets rewarded with better draft position. This should discourage tanking. Playoff teams drop to the last four spots in the draft (17-20).

Keepers / Waivers: I'm thinking let everyone keep up to 35 25 players, using real players for AAA. The catch is that any player who is not on injured reserve (missing from the WIS database for that season) has to appear in at least 5 of your games, or he will be waived and put into the draft pool. So if a good prospect has a lousy season, you can't just park him in AAA the entire season… he has to at least make a few appearances. But it is up to individual owners to police this - if it is your turn to draft and you see that Cincinnati didn't let that crappy young 1970's Mario Soto into 5 or more games, go ahead and draft him! You get rewarded for doing your homework and finding a steal. Edit: The 25 keeper limit includes rookies for the following season. If you are too late posting keepers, they will be assigned based on your player usage in the previous season, so we can get on with the draft. In that case, your keepers will be all your franchise's new rookies, and your returning players with the most (PA+IP) in the current (or recently concluded) sim season.

Since there are not many quality players to choose from in each year's draft, the off-season should move very quickly… if you miss your time slot for the draft, we'll move on to the next owner, and you probably won't be missing out on a player who is worth complaining about anyway. The idea for this league came partly from frustration waiting for a normal progressive to move from season to season, and partly from realizing that sometimes life just gets in the way of doing these drafts.

Extra Pitching: One quirk I would like to include, but other owners can vote this down if it is too unpopular… each team will get one additional pitcher per season, randomly drawn from a pool of moderate-quality pre-1960 pitchers with around 100 IP and around $2.5-3.0 M salaries. The purpose is to bolster the balance of pitching versus offense, since all progressives I've been in have had ridiculous offensive stats. This gives every team one more competent pitcher for the bullpen, or a spot starter, but not someone you would build a team around. THIS RULE HAS BEEN ELIMINATED.

Hall of Fame: If enough owners are interested, we'll cast Hall of Fame ballots for players whose WIS careers have recently ended. I'll try to post career stats for candidates, merging pre-1977 real-life with the progressive's stats. But anyone can nominate a player.

Miscellaneous (mostly from questions posted below, or settings in theme league wizard; most of these details can be voted down if enough owners object):
- Standard WIS format (three 4-team divisions per league, with wildcard and interleague play) Four 5-team divisions, aligned similar to real life as much as possible.
- No salary cap
- No moving teams / ballparks until after 5 seasons (1981). After that, you can use your 1st round rookie draft pick to move to an available ballpark. But that only changes your ballpark, not your franchise name and available rookies. For example, if no one takes the NY Yankees when the league gets started, then someone can eventually move their franchise to Yankee Stadium. The Boston Red Sox could become the New York Red Sox (imagine that!), with Boggs, Clemens, etc coming up in the farm system. A team that has moved cannot move again for at least 5 seasons.
- DH in AL only
- Trades are mostly unrestricted, but subject to veto by 6 owners. Limit on trading draft picks or rookies too far out in the future (see my posts below).
- Transaction Deadline / Deadline for Keepers at 120 game mark.
- No injuries (I'm open to suggestions on that - I've never seen them used in WIS) Edit: I incorrectly thought WIS had finally implemented multi-game injuries. I'm fine with using in-game injuries.
- For players who missed 1977 in WIS, but were not rookies when they returned later, they go into the rookie draft pool when they return. They do not belong to a team first.
2/23/2020 11:34 PM
the dirty work has been done for you....this team is primed for a run(I should know - I have a team in the same division)

come join us - this is a real competitive league with great owners
2/24/2020 3:59 PM
id like to support the above.

im in my first season in the league and im enjoying it a lot.
nockahoma is a truly fantastic guy to have in a league let me say.

what i like is the interesting managing opportunities and the draft.
if you like to do due diligence for a draft these drafts can give real plums that get overlooked....the studier can really excel.
re managing - you get a lot of extra season players so you can constantly bring up players...ward off fatigue......platoon.....trends etc.

this really is a top notch league.


The Pittsburgh team is very enviable.
will have one of the best pitching staffs next season...i think top 4.......somewhere 1 - 4..
2/24/2020 9:42 PM (edited)
I am interested but have Questions
1.Between the major league roster and AAA how many total players can you have?
2. How many rounds in draft?
3. After draft do you have a drop/ad period like other progressives.
2/25/2020 9:37 PM (edited)
practically speaking you could easily have 35 players..maybe more.
just keep drafting after others stop.......in my first season i drafted i think 9 players beyond my 25 keepers.
2/25/2020 11:23 PM
Posted by fatguyrd on 2/25/2020 9:37:00 PM (view original):
I am interested but have Questions
1.Between the major league roster and AAA how many total players can you have?
2. How many rounds in draft?
3. After draft do you have a drop/ad period like other progressives.
1. I set up the league with more AAA spots than anyone would realistically use. That leads into question #2, since almost everyone starts the postseason with 25 keepers...

2. You draft until there is no one left who you want to draft. Most teams stop somewhere around Round 7. There are usually a few who draft between 10-15 players. That allows for shuffling players between the majors and minors to deal with fatigue.

3. No. Something like that could be worked out by trades. Sometimes you'll see owners posting about putting someone on the trade block, after they've drafted another player at the same position.
2/26/2020 8:05 AM
Count me in
2/26/2020 12:18 PM
Posted by fatguyrd on 2/26/2020 12:18:00 PM (view original):
Count me in
Great, I will give you forum access. Welcome aboard!
2/26/2020 10:12 PM
'97 Bonds, Pirates in Franchise w/ Farm System Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.