Here is the situation.

Applied for Morris Brown job in Tark, got hired. Team returned all 12, however, one senior really sucks.

This is D1. C+ prestige.

I rescind a scholarship and put all 40 attention points on the recruit I wanted before the first cycle. The recruit was no all-star, but would have been an excellent back-up in this conference especially with a redshirt (which I never got to warn him about)

Recruit signed with DII school with C prestige (that might have been on him since the beginning) in the second cycle.

Should the power of attention points be accelerated in recruiting period 2? The recruit signed with the DII school before I was able to even offer a scholarship.

Lets just get to the root of the problem which is the stupid 2 recruiting session idea.

This is one of SEVERAL issues that 2 sessions cause. Instead of putting bandaids on the broken leg, lets just reset it!

Posted by mullycj on 3/30/2020 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Lets just get to the root of the problem which is the stupid 2 recruiting session idea.

This is one of SEVERAL issues that 2 sessions cause. Instead of putting bandaids on the broken leg, lets just reset it!

Deal

Posted by vegaskevin on 3/30/2020 11:30:00 AM (view original):
Here is the situation.

Applied for Morris Brown job in Tark, got hired. Team returned all 12, however, one senior really sucks.

This is D1. C+ prestige.

I rescind a scholarship and put all 40 attention points on the recruit I wanted before the first cycle. The recruit was no all-star, but would have been an excellent back-up in this conference especially with a redshirt (which I never got to warn him about)

Recruit signed with DII school with C prestige (that might have been on him since the beginning) in the second cycle.

Should the power of attention points be accelerated in recruiting period 2? The recruit signed with the DII school before I was able to even offer a scholarship.

I don't disagree with the root of your frustration. But maybe you made a human error.

If the recruit has Early or EoP1 signing preference, and is led by a D2, he is going to sign with "A" school on the first cycle of RS2 every single time. So that's something to pay attention to when taking over a new team.

The reason I say "A" school, is because if another D1 or D2 school drops a HV bomb on that first cycle, he could sign with either school. But he WILL sign that cycle every time.

Now if he was Late or Whenever, you just happened to have bad luck in that he signed on that first cycle. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it don't. Every recruit is different.

Posted by topdogggbm on 3/31/2020 5:29:00 AM (view original):

Posted by vegaskevin on 3/30/2020 11:30:00 AM (view original):
Here is the situation.

Applied for Morris Brown job in Tark, got hired. Team returned all 12, however, one senior really sucks.

This is D1. C+ prestige.

I rescind a scholarship and put all 40 attention points on the recruit I wanted before the first cycle. The recruit was no all-star, but would have been an excellent back-up in this conference especially with a redshirt (which I never got to warn him about)

Recruit signed with DII school with C prestige (that might have been on him since the beginning) in the second cycle.

Should the power of attention points be accelerated in recruiting period 2? The recruit signed with the DII school before I was able to even offer a scholarship.

I don't disagree with the root of your frustration. But maybe you made a human error.

If the recruit has Early or EoP1 signing preference, and is led by a D2, he is going to sign with "A" school on the first cycle of RS2 every single time. So that's something to pay attention to when taking over a new team.

The reason I say "A" school, is because if another D1 or D2 school drops a HV bomb on that first cycle, he could sign with either school. But he WILL sign that cycle every time.

Now if he was Late or Whenever, you just happened to have bad luck in that he signed on that first cycle. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it don't. Every recruit is different.

If I understand OP, the recruit signed on the second cycle of RS2, so probably not a first session signing preference, unless no one had offered a scholarship yet. Still a bit of user error at play here, because most recruits that have D2 scholarship offers on the table coming in to RS2 are going to sign before a brand new team can realistically put in all the effort needed to properly get in the battle, even with a late preference. But the frustration is valid. I think the job change penalty you pay, basically giving up a season of recruiting anything other than stopgap filler, is too steep.

What I’ve said since beta:

1) Late preference guys shouldn’t start signing until at earliest the 3rd cycle of RS2. It would be even better if players had static signing preferences; like D1 pool players will show up with various preferences based on the division, prestige, and preference match of the team pursuing, so Early for Arizona, EOP1 for New Mexico State, Late for Grand Canyon, and last 24 hours for Occidental.

2) Hold back visibility of a certain number of “late” recruits until RS2. HD version of Diamonds in the Rough. Jucos and seniors who just had big seasons and are suddenly on scouts’ radars. Not a ton, but enough to basically cover the early entries plus about 1/2 the number of open scholarships of D1 teams with new coaches in an average year, whatever that is. Shouldn’t be world beaters, but generally better guys than the top of the D2 pool.

Posted by vegaskevin on 3/30/2020 1:35:00 PM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 3/30/2020 1:09:00 PM (view original):
Lets just get to the root of the problem which is the stupid 2 recruiting session idea.

This is one of SEVERAL issues that 2 sessions cause. Instead of putting bandaids on the broken leg, lets just reset it!

Deal

That would be so awesome... but that's never gonna happen unfortunately.

Vegaskevin - I sent in a ticket back in Jan 2018 about how terrible it is recruiting in the 2nd session after taking over a new team. Here is what the response was-

"Thanks for the feedback. After taking over a new team, you're always going to be in a less than perfect situation in recruiting, but that mirrors real life. I think there are some relatively small changes that we can make to improve that part of the recruiting experience though. We'll be gathering feedback from the community soon in order to formulate plans for improvements to all the games."

I pointed out how it doesn't mirror real life for D1s to lose so frequently to D2s and he responded.

"Yeah, what happens is that the DII team puts tons of points into the guy from day 1, which makes it hard for a DI school to come in late and make up that ground. I was hoping that coaches would start to expand their initial targets more to include backups, but it seems like most don't do that. They tend to still wait for the top targets to sign before finding backups.

Obviously, when taking over a new job, you have to play catch up regardless. The solution may be to increase the modifier for division to create a more realistic result."

D- DI vs A+ DII should be a larger difference than A+ DII and D DIII. Like damn if I had a chance to play DI ball...

Cub Cub and Shoe either wasn't their for 1st round of Beta 2 sessions I had Duke both times. But they Counted it as 6.8.0 as a result we are more in the term of 6.9.1 But this is merely where the fussing begins.

Posted by cubcub113 on 3/31/2020 6:07:00 PM (view original):
D- DI vs A+ DII should be a larger difference than A+ DII and D DIII. Like damn if I had a chance to play DI ball...

6.8.0

They need to mkae some adjustments to whatever the multiplier is between divisions. In Phelan last cycle I had to put in over 300 ap, 6 hv and 1 cv at an A+ DI school to get to high and knock an A DII school down to moderate for an EOP1 DI project player.

Posted by grecianfox on 3/31/2020 9:22:00 PM (view original):

Posted by cubcub113 on 3/31/2020 6:07:00 PM (view original):
D- DI vs A+ DII should be a larger difference than A+ DII and D DIII. Like damn if I had a chance to play DI ball...

6.8.0

They need to mkae some adjustments to whatever the multiplier is between divisions. In Phelan last cycle I had to put in over 300 ap, 6 hv and 1 cv at an A+ DI school to get to high and knock an A DII school down to moderate for an EOP1 DI project player.

At high, you’re still significantly behind in recruiting credit. My suspicion is that the D2 rival rolled the dice and went all in, or almost all in. You used the (rather significant) advantage D1 schools have with early signing recruits, in doing just enough to sneak into signing range. In reality, you probably ruined that poor coach’s day - they were betting that you didn’t want to invest in a project this year, and they lost the bet.

Increasing the division modifier because of cases like this would make sense if this were not primarily a resource allocation game, and was more like a real life recruiting simulation. If they remove cash from the equation and give everyone the same amount of attention points to distribute each cycle, I’d be all for increasing the division modifier. But I don’t think that resource allocation aspect is going anywhere.

I disagree a ton on the notion that its too hard to recruit for RS2. I think just because its different than how we normally play, people are worse at it. I've had 3 RS2 D2 classes ever and I'll share who I've recruited. I just want to show this because with the right methods you can have a killer D2 class.

Phelan class (my worst): Eugene Gray and James Duncan

Rupp class (middle): Kevin Bolan, Louis Peete, Harold Charity, and Jerry Knapp.

Smith class (best so far): Gregory Davis, Monte Moyer, Abraham Morse, Nicholas Tucker, and Michael McOnnell. Here is an imgur with their ratings (and colors):

https://imgur.com/a/P2FBJAQ

Some of my best classes have been RS2 classes. The key to RS2 at D2 is to use all of your money to view as many players as possible and (most importantly) don't go after players that have other D1 or D2 scholarships!!!!! All these players either had no scholarship or a D3 scholarship after RS1. With such a huge available range because of the amount of money available and decreased pool size (because D1s have already signed a lot of their targets), you can see so many great players that have gotten passed up RS1.

The other thing I would recommend is using your D3 recruiting season (or wherever you were before) to help you for RS2. For instance, with my Rupp recruiting class, I scouted D2 internationals, Hawaii, Alaska and a few states by where I was and I got scholarships on players (in essence to call rights so other D3s wouldnt hop on them with me), then I rescinded the scholarship the cycle before RS1 ended. I got Knapp with this method. When doing Smith recruiting, I did the same scouting method, but instead of rescinding the scholarships, I filled up my teams scholarships so I couldn't sign the players with the D3, but sims and other humans didn't move up the considering list. I didn't end up signing anyone I was on during RS1 with the D3 team (before I left) in Smith, but I had a few people ready in case I missed on my last targets.

The last piece of advise I will give is to cut players so you have as many AP and scouting resources as possible.

Hope this helps.

We really aren’t talking about DII r3cruiting here sportsbull.

I just saw that people were talking about how RS2 is impossible to recruit in and thats a notion I hear a lot and I disagree with.

For new coaches at a school, I absolutely can see how it is frustrating. I've mentioned before that I think the current system in place with the second recruiting cycle actively pushes new coaches from joining and current coaches from ever moving. Does it add a challenge? Sure, but taking over a new team generally comes with enough challenges on its own. Brand new coaches need to learn the game, coaches moving up need to learn the system, previously SIM-coached teams require a ton of remodeling (as well as previously human-coached teams as the human-coach more than likely is either leaving a lack of talent, lack of filled scholarships, signed poor incoming recruits, etc.) Is it realistic? Maybe, yet there's plenty of other aspects in the game that aren't in line with the real world. Why does this one need to be? Personally, I think it'd make more sense to allow new coaches a bonus cycle before others can begin that second cycle or give them a multiplier of some sort. It's not fair for everyone to resume recruiting while a handful of coaches are only beginning.

Also, I think the DI vs. DII multiplier is fine as is. I think many people (including myself a lot of the time) tend to fall into a trap of competing for recruits. It's a product of playing against so many other humans where we need to 'stake' our territory and do everything we can to hold it... even if it's not the smart move. We commit and go all-in on our primary guys, wait to see how they play out, and then 100% commit to our secondary guys and so on. If a DII coach has been on the phone since the minute the first cycle began offering this kid the keys to the campus and one night with the assistant coach's mother, I'd like to believe they deserve a fair shot at him. If the coach at Duke was to send a quick "LMK if u wanna play at Duke" text, I'd like to believe they deserve a shot as well. That doesn't mean DII team shouldn't be considered, Duke should've done more early (rather than probably go for several 4 and 5 stars before eventually settling on their last resort).

Posted by cubcub113 on 3/31/2020 6:07:00 PM (view original):
D- DI vs A+ DII should be a larger difference than A+ DII and D DIII. Like damn if I had a chance to play DI ball...

6.8.0

I don't mean to get off-topic but:
My former teammate was recruited to play at Oak Hill Academy (he was on my HS team Fr. through Jr. years; transferred to Oak Hill his senior year). He was recruited to play at quite a few DI schools, including some P5 schools and I remember the A10 as a whole had been showing him quite a bit of love. At the end of the day, he decided on playing for the DII National Champions and sat the bench his first two years. If an A+ DII team is a really good fit (closer to home near a beach, coach helps players mature into men, the players have really good vibes, the facilities are crazy nice, the arena fills up a bit and gets loud, better academically, etc.), it's easy to understand why you would choose them over a D- DI team (with a few fans in the arena, people joke about how you guys are 0-15, etc.) despite the benefit of saying "yeah, I'm DI".

Small rant now: I understand what you're saying isn't "DII shouldn't have a chance" and I understand even the example above is just one silly example. It does frustrate me when I read in CCs and in the forums how recruits "wouldn't go to X school over Y school". It happens quite frequently. It might be a stretch (or maybe something I'm entirely alone on here) but I'd even be in favor of having a smaller division multiplier but making "Wants to Play at Projected Division" a preference with Very Good or Very Bad. It's not every recruits dream to play DI and eventually make the NBA, some just want to go to school on a discount by playing some ball.