Has anyone tried this? I'm running a M2M defense. Currently my roster has 4 big men active on the roster and the 4th one is the worst player on my roster. I have quite a few SG/SF type players I can put at PF but they're all in the 20s for rebounding. I would be using one as a backup, but I'm wondering how much it would hurt my team as a whole.

Only done this successfully with FCP. Never started someone with under 30 REB at PF at D2/D3 though.

Without seeing the specific players, I think it would put you at a disadvantage. I could see trying it if you can create a a mismatch on offense. Try to turn a disadvantage into an advantage....

here are the 2 options for my backup PF.

https://ibb.co/FmF5XTW
https://ibb.co/NnMhfHQ

Assuming the second player also has a bit of an IQ advantage (given the disparity in potential) I think the second pretty clearly adds more value to your team getting 12-15 minutes off the bench as a PF this year. I’d rather use player 1 as a 2-3 swing in the 3rd slot if it comes to it. If he isn’t going to get boards, I’d at least want him to be a stellar athletic defender down low, and he’s more of a generic 3 than anything at this point. 2 isn’t great by any means, but if he brings A level senior IQ, that isn’t nothing, and the cores are adequate.

Do we even know how rebounding works?

Do they pick a player and look at his individual rebounding or is it team rebounding?

Posted by hughesjr on 12/30/2020 10:51:00 PM (view original):
Do we even know how rebounding works?

Do they pick a player and look at his individual rebounding or is it team rebounding?

Both

.

?

If I was the game developer, I would have designed a 2-step process, set up so that following a missed shot, the system would first determine which positions are in play (basically long, mid, or short), eliminating a certain number of player from the draw, and then generating a number based on overall rebounding skill from the players in the draw (shooter would have reduced but not eliminated odds, declining as they move away from the basket). I assume it’s something close to this, so a mix of individual and team I guess. Might be something totally different. I think all I have ever seen on it is that functionally from a player perspective what goes in to rebounding skill is athleticism, rebounding, and IQ. Other factors like defense, opponents strength, and usage affect the raw numbers.

Posted by shoe3 on 12/31/2020 10:16:00 AM (view original):
If I was the game developer, I would have designed a 2-step process, set up so that following a missed shot, the system would first determine which positions are in play (basically long, mid, or short), eliminating a certain number of player from the draw, and then generating a number based on overall rebounding skill from the players in the draw (shooter would have reduced but not eliminated odds, declining as they move away from the basket). I assume it’s something close to this, so a mix of individual and team I guess. Might be something totally different. I think all I have ever seen on it is that functionally from a player perspective what goes in to rebounding skill is athleticism, rebounding, and IQ. Other factors like defense, opponents strength, and usage affect the raw numbers.

I agree with how it SHOULD be done .. now if we can get someone to tell us how it IS done, that would be great :)

i'm pretty sure rebounding is a team effort, that the entire team gets weighted irrespective of where the shot was taken or what kind. however i think who took the shot has some impact (shooters have a higher shot of getting their own rebounds). the way stats are doled out after the team rebound is highly disconnected from the underlying process, making player rebounding statistics fairly misleading in some cases.

the type/distance of shot bit i confirmed with seble or maybe even tarek, this was pretty many years ago. the individual shooter having an impact, i remember explicitly talking about it, but i don't fully remember if it does or does not have an impact. i feel like it does or i wouldn't remember talking about it so clearly. i might be able to find that ticket, unclear how difficult that may be...

rebounding being a team process that encompasses the entire team on every shot, that is just my theory, but i'd be pretty surprised if reality deviated meaningfully. the individual stats being doled out afterwards in a manner inconsistent with actual rebounding contributions i consider a fact, but its just based on observation.

If what Gil is saying is how the programming actually functions, why does positioning on a depth chart matter?

Rebounding is a team process that encompasses the entire team on every shot... So the Broncos average 48 Reb and the Cowboys average 38 Reb... If I’m the Broncos coach I have the rebounding edge regardless of which player is at which position.

craig, sorry for the confusion - i am not intending to make that strong of a statement. all i am saying is, the entire team is taken into account on every rebound in a relatively similar way possession over possession. to try to be clear -

1) the rebounding only takes into account players on the court, but it presumably takes all 10 into account on every rebound (without getting into stuff like end game logic where you might not rebound on a FT or something).

2) rebounding is still weighted by position - the depth position does matter (side note: the weighting of the c over the pg is less than most folks assume)

3) the way rebounding is figured in a possession does not rely on the type or distance of the shot

4) related note - rebounding is based on reb, ath, probably iq, and sta (via fatigue), and also defense and positioning (the team game planning settings, m2m -2 etc). specifically, rebounding is not based on speed or defense (the rating)

Posted by craigaltonw on 12/31/2020 3:29:00 PM (view original):
If what Gil is saying is how the programming actually functions, why does positioning on a depth chart matter?

Rebounding is a team process that encompasses the entire team on every shot... So the Broncos average 48 Reb and the Cowboys average 38 Reb... If I’m the Broncos coach I have the rebounding edge regardless of which player is at which position.

It's a weighted average where players at the 4/5 and 3 are weighted more.

Posted by cubcub113 on 12/31/2020 5:08:00 PM (view original):

Posted by craigaltonw on 12/31/2020 3:29:00 PM (view original):
If what Gil is saying is how the programming actually functions, why does positioning on a depth chart matter?

Rebounding is a team process that encompasses the entire team on every shot... So the Broncos average 48 Reb and the Cowboys average 38 Reb... If I’m the Broncos coach I have the rebounding edge regardless of which player is at which position.

It's a weighted average where players at the 4/5 and 3 are weighted more.

So the 1 and 2 are weighted equally? Or it’s on a curve weighted from 5 to 1?

Rebounding, to me, seems one of the less predictable pieces of the game engine as far as outlier “bad sims” go.

I just played a game where I expected my guys in the post to be at a REB disadvantage, while guards had a Reb advantage. Sure enough, I got slaughtered in the post and then my starting 3 spot led my team in rebounds with 9. He averages 3.5/game. 76/88/17 ath/speed/Reb. His team-leading 9 rebounds made me lol when I saw the box score.

Don't know if this has any factor in this game...

Back in the dice days.
1st roll was player position
2nd roll was player rebound ability.

Team ability and superior rebounding talent reflected in the player column