Hey guys, I'm thinking of redshirting a senior, who is also my best player, and my only senior. The reason I'm considering this, is because I feel like I'll be pretty good this season if he plays, but if I can redshirt him, and have my whole team back and intact for next season, I'll have a good chance to make a deep run in the NT...So my question is: I expect that he will reject my redshirt offer, and will have a greatly reduced WE, but could there be other consequences, such as him leaving, and transferring to another school at the end of this season? I've never done this before, so if anyone has. or has a good guess as to whether or not a transfer could occur, then I'd greatly appreciate your response. ..Thanks in advance for any response.

The way it works right now, at the start of the season, he will likely get mad and lose a lot of WE, basically drop to the single digits. Rarely, he might just accept it and all is good. You could just tag him with it and roll with it, because they don’t leave or transfer (currently, that I know of, since 3.0 rolled out). The downside is that even if he’s maxed in all attributes, the steep loss of WE hurts *a little* with maximizing his IQ growth on the year. I don’t recall, someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think if you redshirt a senior too early, like right after rollover and before scouting opens up, you *do not get the bonus resources* for that spot. That bonus is significant for a lot of folks who do this (and is also why some folks want the senior redshirt practice nixed).

Anyway, the workaround for all that, what I do when I’m considering this, is leave the guy off your depth chart completely, but don’t redshirt until after the season. He’ll start dropping some WE after a while, and may lose a dozen or more points, depending on how high it is, and how good he thinks he is, but it’s not as bad as if you redshirt at the start. He’ll eventually drop all the way down when you tag him, but you’ve got the season of growth under him. So if there’s any development at all, and if you want to make sure he gets from A- to A+ in his final season, instead of stalling out at A IQ, I think it usually pays off to wait until the end. Just don’t forget to actually apply the redshirt before the deadline, which is the day after the championship games run.

I’m looking at Bryant now, and if his perimeter and/or ballhandling are still black or blue (or green?) you definitely don’t want to redshirt at the start. Ride out the season, get as much growth as you can before dropping that WE. That could be the difference of 10 or more perimeter points, even though he never plays, if he’s still blue or high black potential there. If you redshirt now, there’s a good chance you hardly get any improvement, especially if he digresses in the offseason.

If those are both red or very close, though, then it probably isn’t going to be a big deal. His IQ is already at the point where you should get it to A+ by the end of the season, even if he drops to 1 WE.

Had a Senior redshirt transfer a while back. Believe it was after 3.0.

Posted by TRrrr on 3/3/2021 2:24:00 PM (view original):
Had a Senior redshirt transfer a while back. Believe it was after 3.0.

I’d be interested to see it, if you can find it. I know it happened prior to rollout, but I haven’t heard of any cases of non-freshmen transferring due to pt or redshirting, aside from broken promises if they were recruited as jucos or transfers, since 3.0 was launched.

(I realize it’s pretty much impossible to say for sure, since transfers are erased from your past rosters; but if you know what team, and what the basic timeframe was...)

Thanks for the EXCELLENT, very helpful info, shoe. I would have redshirted him before the season started, but based on what you've told me, I will now wait until post season starts. That's why I come here when I have a HD problem. You guys always give me good, sound, advice. I do hope that TRitt is incorrect about his senior redshirt, transfer though.

Posted by duke137 on 3/3/2021 5:41:00 PM (view original):
Thanks for the EXCELLENT, very helpful info, shoe. I would have redshirted him before the season started, but based on what you've told me, I will now wait until post season starts. That's why I come here when I have a HD problem. You guys always give me good, sound, advice. I do hope that TRitt is incorrect about his senior redshirt, transfer though.

with the approach you are taking, my understanding is you will have the same odds of your senior leaving as if you didn't redshirt. but i don't know if senior players can quit over being ticked about minutes, like does it know they are not graduating so they actually could quit over that? i could see it either way, but that means either 1% ballpark or 0% of him leaving - so either way - not a reason to hold back. for a junior or soph it would that 1% ballpark so i would just assume its 1% personally. i doubt pre- or post- 3.0 matters re: TRRRRs dude, so i'd take that as a good reason to believe its 1%.

“i doubt pre- or post- 3.0 matters?“

My impression is that it has changed. One related aspect *definitely* changed, when you cut a guy - any guy, regardless of who signed him - there used to be a chance some other player would quit in protest. That doesn’t exist post 3.0, it was taken out during the beta process. IIRC Seble even asked us about it, and it was almost unanimously loathed. So it’s gone.

People used to talk about trying to make guys quit, and I know it used to happen, I think it was probably a bit more than 1%. It just doesn’t happen anymore, even though we still get the same emails at the same rate, as far as I can tell. Folks pretty much gave up on it. I don’t think it was ever announced as a change, so I may be mistaken, but I haven’t talked to anyone who thinks this is still a possibility in the past 3+ years, before this morning.

oh interesting, you are saying no upperclassmen can quit no matter what anymore? or at least you don't think so? i hadn't heard that, but it sounds plausible. i knew the quitting thing on cut was taken out but didn't know they eliminated transfers outside of cutting.

Quick related question... What happens if you have 1 senior, sign a player in RS1, and then redshirt the senior at the end of the NT? Will it even let you redshirt the senior if you've signed someone? Will the freshman not be added to your team for the next season?

Posted by mlitney on 3/4/2021 9:36:00 AM (view original):
Quick related question... What happens if you have 1 senior, sign a player in RS1, and then redshirt the senior at the end of the NT? Will it even let you redshirt the senior if you've signed someone? Will the freshman not be added to your team for the next season?

I believe you will not have the option to redshirt the senior at that point, it just disappears. That’s a good question though, I don’t recall for sure.

In this situation, I’ve usually used this tactic as insurance. The senior was there in case I lost an unexpected early entry, or had bad recruiting luck. But I could also see if I was in OP’s situation, targeting one good late signee to try to lock up with those extra’s resources, to replace the worst current player on my roster, who I would plan to cut at the end of the season. That way, the resources aren’t wasted, you’re using them to improve next season’s roster. But it should probably be a late signee. If it’s a first session signee, there’s a chance someone else could take him before you’d be able to sign him (because you won’t have the roster spot without giving up the option to redshirt that senior, if you’re following).

I do this a lot in Knight. So these are my tips.

Take the player out of your lineup and place him on mop up minutes. You’ll gain the AP for him during recruiting. I tried to not leave it too far along and decided to redshirt my player prior to signings in RS1. I had 3 openings with the redshirt, but 4 without. I also was at 100 AP with the 4 openings and the AP didn’t change with the placement of the redshirt. Currently I have 2 openings and 74 AP left. So the system realizes it isn’t a full value in terms of openings to AP, but it really should be at 60 if things were acting appropriately. That said; I usually don’t have many openings when I redshirt my seniors. You’ll take the WE hit and the player will send you a message being upset, but in my experience he won’t leave.

Sort of unrelated, but I just redshirted a freshmen after not giving him notice. (I was planning to give him notice, but he signed more quickly than I expected. He's a big man with 33 Athl, but it's green. So I'm thinking/hoping the extra year will let his Athl get up to a decent level for D2) He only took an 8-pt WE hit. Crazy to see that -79!!!

Posted by bigham23 on 3/8/2021 11:00:00 AM (view original):
Sort of unrelated, but I just redshirted a freshmen after not giving him notice. (I was planning to give him notice, but he signed more quickly than I expected. He's a big man with 33 Athl, but it's green. So I'm thinking/hoping the extra year will let his Athl get up to a decent level for D2) He only took an 8-pt WE hit. Crazy to see that -79!!!

I hadn't checked on his progress in a while. We're about halfway thru the season, he's gotten +5 in Athl, and it's still green. So the 38 +28 min = min-max of 66, which is a plus since I was banking on a min-max of 61. Still hoping he gets to at least 70+ Athl.

Also, the 8-pt WE hit took him from 83 to 75 WE, so that rating is still pretty strong.
https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=4764011