What are the key attributes for the best development of Off/Def IQ? In GD, the key is GPA. Is it the same for HD? Does Work Ethic also play a part?

High school plays a big part in how fast they learn the O/D but also practice minutes, I’d say most people have 20-25 minutes in both O/D for a total of 40-50 minutes. I don’t think WE plays a part

HS GPA. To my awareness WE's impact remains disputed. Playing time also has an impact on IQ dev.

WE's impact on IQ development is disputed? i am pretty sure WE impacts IQ development, but i kinda thought everyone agreed with that. so kinda interested what the 'we may not impact iq' comes from.

playing time though, i don't think so. only indirectly through its impact on WE development.

i think IQ development has always been the same simple 3 - HS GPA (not college GPA), work ethic, and team practice time.

its interesting to me... i thought this was a settled question for at least the past 10 years... but the first two answers sort of suggest that may not be the case :)

there's a lot of 'think' in my answer but that is just my natural hedge against conflict, i'm actually pretty sure of the answer.

Posted by gillispie on 3/26/2021 9:01:00 PM (view original):
WE's impact on IQ development is disputed? i am pretty sure WE impacts IQ development, but i kinda thought everyone agreed with that. so kinda interested what the 'we may not impact iq' comes from.

playing time though, i don't think so. only indirectly through its impact on WE development.

i think IQ development has always been the same simple 3 - HS GPA (not college GPA), work ethic, and team practice time.

Work ethic most definitely impacts IQ development. If anyone doesn't believe that, just look at a single digit WE player versus a very high WE player after 4 years of development.

IQ development is, as you state, based on HS GPA, WE, and team practice minutes.

Yeah agree with gil and emy, WE is pretty important

WE is pretty big for IQ development. Certainly the biggest factor is how much time you devote in practice, obviously, but in my opinion, the only real dispute is whether WE is as important as HS GPA (I think it might be), not whether it’s a factor. Between the low WE guy with a high HS GPA, and the high WE guy with a low HS GPA, I suspect they end up pretty close. I don’t keep track, and WIS doesn’t either (No long term retention of HS GPA, nor IQ), but it would be a fun community project if someone wanted to run some comparisons.

Starters also get an IQ boost, particularly Freshman starters.

Posted by rsvphr on 3/27/2021 7:40:00 PM (view original):
Starters also get an IQ boost, particularly Freshman starters.

playing time and starting have no direct impact on IQ development.

it is still good to start a freshman to boost them long term - because you get WE gains from starting/playing them early, which reap dividends for the rest of their career. so it is fair to say freshman starters get more WE growth which in turn leads to slightly higher IQ by the time they leave - compared to if they hadn't started. but that's it.

Posted by gillispie on 3/27/2021 9:09:00 PM (view original):

Posted by rsvphr on 3/27/2021 7:40:00 PM (view original):
Starters also get an IQ boost, particularly Freshman starters.

playing time and starting have no direct impact on IQ development.

it is still good to start a freshman to boost them long term - because you get WE gains from starting/playing them early, which reap dividends for the rest of their career. so it is fair to say freshman starters get more WE growth which in turn leads to slightly higher IQ by the time they leave - compared to if they hadn't started. but that's it.

It could be what you see as a freshman is that IQ develops faster early on, like a player moves much faster from F to D than from C to B. Early WE boosts from starts might impact that *a little bit* but it’s indirect, as gil points out.

way back in v1, the IQ improvements required the same amount of practice to move from one grade to another.
ie.. going from D- to D would take around 240 practice minutes. Moving three grades from D- to C- would take over 700 minutes. Going from B+ to A+ also took around 700 minutes.

The grade improvement rate was modified to get the new guys to get to a minimal "acceptable" grade faster.
After the change, the time it took to move through the lower grades was vastly reduced. From D- to C-, rather than taking 700 minutes, now took less than 200 minutes to improve three grades.
And the time of moving up within higher grades was increased dramatically. The B+ to A+, rather than 700 minutes, more than doubled to maybe 1600 or so.

Overall the time from F to A+ stayed pretty much the same at just around 3000 total practice minutes.

It's basically high school gpa combined with current Work Ethic (which is improved with minutes/starts).
Which in the wider part of the bell curve are pretty similar in importance.
ie a 3.0 gpa and 50 WE will improve around the same speed as a 2.8 / 60-WE or 3.2 / 40-WE

Posted by oldwarrior on 3/28/2021 1:25:00 PM (view original):
way back in v1, the IQ improvements required the same amount of practice to move from one grade to another.
ie.. going from D- to D would take around 240 practice minutes. Moving three grades from D- to C- would take over 700 minutes. Going from B+ to A+ also took around 700 minutes.

The grade improvement rate was modified to get the new guys to get to a minimal "acceptable" grade faster.
After the change, the time it took to move through the lower grades was vastly reduced. From D- to C-, rather than taking 700 minutes, now took less than 200 minutes to improve three grades.
And the time of moving up within higher grades was increased dramatically. The B+ to A+, rather than 700 minutes, more than doubled to maybe 1600 or so.

Overall the time from F to A+ stayed pretty much the same at just around 3000 total practice minutes.

It's basically high school gpa combined with current Work Ethic (which is improved with minutes/starts).
Which in the wider part of the bell curve are pretty similar in importance.
ie a 3.0 gpa and 50 WE will improve around the same speed as a 2.8 / 60-WE or 3.2 / 40-WE

this is as close as you'll get to a gospel answer in this game, oldwarrior was the authority on iq development back when i started 13 years ago, and as best i can tell there's been no meaningful challenge to his work or conclusions in that time.

i remember when i first started and oldwarrior's iq study (iguana) popped up on the boards and i was like, holy ****, i cannot believe someone put this amount of effort into studying such a little corner of the HD world. it was a little baffling, but mostly it was like... wow... these people are crazy! in a good way, of course. it definitely made me want to be part of the madness.