5x5 Clone Draft - Strategy writeup Topic

Let's hear about your draft strategy. Did you get sniped? Did you regret any of your picks?
12/16/2024 10:53 PM (edited)

Let me begin by saying I truly lucked out by getting the second draft spot. Ever since I read the theme rules to this league, I could think of noone else to take other than Jimmie Foxx (to knock out that dreaded "Catcher" spot). I had a feeling he would be a hot commodity so I was waiting with baited breath to see who HAPPYHOURS was going to take with the first pick. Once he took KERSHAW, I had my guy.

1st Round: JIMMIE FOXX (Catcher, First Base, Third Base, Left Field and Designated Hitter). I don't think I need to say anymore about why I took this pick.

2nd Round: FELIX HERNANDEZ (SP, SP, SP, SP, Closer). With most of the great pitchers already off the board, I knew I couldn't wait another pick to grab a Starter so I figured "The King" was as good as anyone else left (once I figured in salaries). I looked at Juan Marichal, Steve Carlton and Gaylord Perry but they all would have given me financial issues if I would have take their better seasons. Hernandez gives me four decent Starting years and he's got one season under 100 IP that I'm going to use as my Closer.

3rd Round: STU MILLER (RP, RP, RP, RP, Spot 5th Starter). His Performance History scares the hell out of me but I needed a guy who was "mostly" a relief pitcher but had at least one or two seasons with enough innings where he could spot-start for me. I really wanted Hoyt Wilhelm but he was gone before this pick got around to me.

4th Round: ARKY VAUGHAN (2B, SS, OF, OF, Bench). I just needed a really good defensive Shortstop which "should" equate to a half-way decent 2B and Outfielder. Arky's bat is just a plus - with a great OBP to get on in front of J. Foxx.

5th Round: JIM BEAUCHAMP (Bench, Bench, Bench, Bench, Bench). Who? Yeah, I already had my Pitching Staff and my 9 Starting Position Players set, along with a really good Arky Vaughan on the bench. All I needed was someone who had five seasons of really low salary to get me to $120M and allow me to use as many of those good FOXX and VAUGHAN seasons as I could. Jim Beauchamp was the man. All five of his seasons only add up to 1.2M+.

My Starting Nine:

1936 Arky Vaughan (.335 / .453 / .474) - Left Field - (Shortstop Ratings) C/B- (.945/5.10)
1938 Jimmie Foxx (.349 / .462 / .704)\ - Designated Hitter
1930 Jimmie Foxx (.335 / .429 / .637) - Right Field (Performance History) .965
1929 Jimmie Foxx (.354 / .463 / .625) - First Base A-/D+ (.995)
1934 Arky Vaughan (.333 / .431 / .511) - Second Base - (Shortstop Ratings) B/A (.961/5.52)
1939 Jimmie Foxx (.360 / .464 / .694) - Third Base - (Performance History) .966
1938 Arky Vaughan (.322 / .433 / .444) - Shortstop - B/A (.961)
1940 Jimmie Foxx (.297 / .412 / .581) - Catcher - A/C/C+ (.995)
1937 Arky Vaughan (.322 / .394 / .463) - Center Field - (C/B- (.973)

Team Totals: .330 BA / .431 OBP / .563 SLG


12/17/2024 3:28 AM (edited)
I had a bunch of stuff going when this theme was announced, so I spent zero amount of time researching ahead of time. With the salary cap in place and the third-round reversal, I knew I wanted to pick near the end of the draft. My thinking was that it would be an advantage making my 4th and 5th round picks at the same time. I drew #6 and not surprisingly, draft slots 1 thru 5 were taken. So instead of drafting 6th, I grabbed 24th and didn't even start researching until we got to about pick #16.

I thought there was a decent chance that I'd have a few of these guys available to choose from... Frankie Frisch, Kevin Brown, Mariano Rivera, Justin Verlander, Chipper Jones, Pete Rose. Nope... every one of those guys got picked between pick 17 and pick 22.

Rounds 1-2 (Tim Raines & Paul Molitor)
Since I have back to back picks, I will list these two picks together. I knew I wasn't going to take a SP because I don't see any value taking the 17th best SP here. Mariano Rivera was the only RP I would consider here, so it basically comes down to which two hitters I was taking. My first thought was Tim Raines (2B, OF, OF, OF, scrub) and Joe Torre (C, 1B, 3B, DH, scrub). I built a roster that I liked with these two players and almost posted it. My third hitter could be a shortstop who happen to have a bunch of cheap seasons. The problem was that my salary was a bit too high. More importantly, the entire purpose of taking Tim Raines was to play in a negative HR park and that would mute Torre's HR potential.

That's when I remembered that Paul Molitor plays all four infield positions and is reasonably priced. The downside of using Molitor is that he doesn't really have any cheap seasons, so I can't really afford to use Raines at 2B. So you could argue that I wasted an early round pick on an OF-only with three usable seasons. But that's ok, since I am pretty sure I will be able to get the SP that I have targeted with my 4th round pick. (I planned all along to take my RP with the first pick in round 3).

So with these two picks, I have my entire starting lineup except catcher. Since '87 Raines (627 pa), '80 Molitor (512 pa) and '87 Molitor (542 pa) are a little light in PAs, I am using a fourth Raines. Numbers below are normalized#

1B: '92 Molitor - 700 pa, .320, .390, .460, 31 SB, (A-/A+)
2B: '80 Molitor - 512 pa, .304, .370, .429, 34 SB, (C/A+)
3B: '88 Molitor - 690 pa, .312, .386, .447, 41 SB, (C/B)
SS: '79 Molitor - 650 pa, .322, .370, .456, 33 SB, (C-/B-)
LF: '87 Raines - 627 pa, .330, .429, .515, 50 SB, (B+/B)
CF: '84 Raines - 723 pa, 309, .398, .444, 75 SB, (B+/A) --> also will play some 2B (D/B-)
RF: '85 Raines - 670 pa, .320, .410, .479 70 SB, (A/C-)
DH: '87 Molitor - 542 pa, .353, .435, .543, 45 SB
OF/DH: '89 Raines - 618 pa, .286, .404, .427, 41 SB (A/D) --> will play OF & DH

Speed ratings: 64, 84. 86, 86, 91, 95, 94, 75, 87

Round 3 (Rich Gossage)
Before I officially posted the Raines/Molitor pick, I briefly changed my mind and almost posted Chris Sale & Corbin Burnes. These two have enough combined innings to make a complete pitching staff and I wouldn't have to worry about pitch count for the bullpen. The lefty/right combo would have made a nice Tandem. Sure, I could have still drafted one decent hitter with the first pick in round 3, but by the time it got back to me in round 4-5, there would've been scraps left and it would've been too hard to get a good fit. I already know who I wanted to be my SP.

Once Mariano Rivera got taken, I pretty much decided to take Rich Gossage with my third round pick and I knew I'd get him. I figured everybody else would want to get one hitter and one starting pitcher in the first 2 rounds. Gossage's IP/G are reasonable and he's got enough big-inning seasons to pair up with the SP that I wanted. Due to salary cap concerns, I am really only using his four best seasons, plus one mediocre season.

'81 Rich Gossage - 71 ip, 1.20 erc#, 0.79 whip#, .144 oav#, 0.37 hr/9#
'77 Rich Gossage - 133 ip, 1.67 erc#, 0.95 whip#, .170 oav#, 0.53 hr/9#
'82 Rich Gossage - 93 ip, 1.75 erc#, 0.97 whip#, .195 oav#, 0.40 hr/9#
'85 Rich Gossage - 79 ip, 2.07 erc#, 1.05 whip#, .232 oav#, 0.11 hr/9#
'79 Rich Gossage - 60 ip, 2.60 erc#, 1.13 whip#, .224 oav#, 0.65 hr/9#

Rounds 4-5 (Juan Marichal & Tim McCarver)
When I made the Gossage pick at the beginning of round 3, there were 6 teams that still needed a starting pitcher. I had the following potential names on my list.. Juan Marichal, Robin Roberts, Bret Saberhagen, Gaylord Perry, Hal Newhouser. With all the teams drafting HR hitters, I felt there was a pretty good chance I would get Marichal. Only Newhouser got taken.

When it got to me, I was still debating between Marichal, Roberts and Saberhagen. Roberts would give me more innings than Marichal, plus a solid RP option with 1965 Roberts. More importantly, '65 Roberts would give me access to the Astrodome. I thought somebody would take Saberhagen so was shocked he was still there. He has 5 decent seasons (plenty of innings) including one that could be used for long-relief. He would give me access to Kaufmann Stadium. But it really came down to quality and Marichal is just better than the other two, given that I would be playing in a negative HR park (County Stadium, via Paul Molitor). Marichal is a bit light on innings (his three big seasons only has 906 ips) but I can use '60 Marichal (86 ips) to spot start. His 5th season is basically a million dollar mop-up pitcher.

1966 Juan Marichal - 310 ip, 1.89 erc#, 0.90 whip#, .205 oav#, 0.82 hr/9#
1965 Juan Marichal - 296 ip, 2.05 erc#, 0.96 whip#, .212 oav#, 0.74 hr/9#
1969 Juan Marichal - 300 ip, 2.17 erc#, 1.02 whip#, .229 oav#, 0.42 hr/9#
1960 Juan Marichal - 86 ip, 2.24 erc#, 1.09 whip#, .204 oav#, 0.48 hr/9#

My catcher choice was always between Tim McCarver and Todd Pratt. I could've gone either way... I chose McCarver because I wanted at least one left-handed bat. Also, his two best seasons account for 400 PA with ERC+ of 124 & 129. The fifth McCarver is a $258K scrub.

1977 Tim McCarver - 205 pa, .320, .410, .519 (B/A/C-)
1976 Tim McCarver - 194 pa, .277, .414, .443 (A+/A/C-)
1975 Tim McCarver - 95 pa, .288, 401, .407 (C/C+/B-)
1970 Tim McCarver - 182 pa, .287, .346, .434 (B/A+/C)

Outlook:
It's been a while since I built a speed team with HR-prone pitchers. I would have preferred to play in a park with -3 or -4 for HRs, but just didn't want to downgrade to Roberts or Saberhagen. In this specific theme, there will be a number of teams with players with poor defense and/or playing out of position. I feel like my defense is going to be better than most teams (only my SS is a below average defender). I guess my home-road split will be extreme. If I can somehow score enough runs on the road to play close to .500 ball, then 90 wins is within reason. But if I get killed on the road, then we'll be around .500. I will split the difference and guess 86-76.

Edit: Adding my team totals (not normalized). Excluding scrubs that won't play.

Batting: 6408 PA, .315 avg, .396 obp, .468 slug, 420 SBs at 84%, B-/B+, $64.6 million
Pitching: 1428 IP, 2.09 era, .204 oav, 0.95 whip, 1.88 bb/9, 7.23 k/9, 0.65 hr/9, $53.6 million
12/17/2024 4:29 PM (edited)
Intro and Draft Pick Selection: #19
I was second-to-last here, so it was between #19 and #15. For no good reason, I went with the 19th selection.

Thinking through a 5x5 clone and with a max of 13 pitcher slots, that means every team will have 3 unique hitters and 2 unique pitchers. The one exception would be players who had both hitting and pitching seasons, a la Babe Ruth. I spent some time looking at these options but once I added in the time range, 1920 and on, that cut out most of the options. Obviously, two-way players with value as a hitter and a pitcher could be useful, but there really aren't any of those in this era. Johnny Cooney is probably the closest here--he has a couple decent hitting seasons as a 1B/OF and a couple pitching seasons with an ERC# under 3.00, but neither side of the coin is very helpful. Getting another 130 innings of 2.5-ish ERC is not worth rostering a mediocre OF when you could just get a stud OF.

Two-way players with good hitting value but no real pitching value aren't really useful--there are plenty of hitter spots to stash their poor seasons. However, two-way players with good pitching seasons but below-replacement hitting seasons CAN be useful. They need at least two hitting seasons as that would allow you to use the three remaining pitcher slots (if they only had one hitting season, you couldn't roster 4 pitching seasons in addition to two other pitcher clones). Two pitchers stuck out here. One is Dick Hall, who had two elite reliever seasons with about 150 total innings plus a couple other seasons in the 2.20 to 2.50 ERC range. That's still not a ton of extra value, though. The other option is Bucky Walters. Unlike Cooney and Hall, Bucky was a starting pitcher and had 4 seasons with below 3.00 ERC and 250+ IP. His hitting seasons weren't useful but he did have two cheap ones which could help with the cap. This would require a lot of puzzle-fitting with the rest of the offese but would allow rostering two relievers.

Round 01.19: Mariano Rivera
I was initially hoping that a unique hitting option like Foxx or Boudreau would fall, but both went top 10. A stud pitcher with some bulk in innings would be great, but the last of my wish list went when deGrom went with pick 11. It's definitely a huge advantage to pick early in this clones draft but hopefully tying division/league alignment to draft slot plus the salary cap will alleviate most of that. We will see.

At this point, I was looking at a few options. On the hitting side, the hardest spots to fill are easily catcher and shortstop. If you field three hitters, you like go something like C/1B/DH, SS/3B/2B, and OF/1B/DH with your three picks. If I wanted to try my Bucky Walters plan, I'd need to get two players--one who played catcher and one who played shortstop (with Boudreau gone, nobody played both at a high enough level)--who could cover all 9 positions. Mookie Betts doesn't play a great SS or 2B but he does play both credibly plus some really good OF seasons of course. Chipper Jones has a reasonable SS season, obviously great 3B seasons, plus both the bat and some ratings to play DH/1B/OF, even if out of position. There's also the Torre/Bench types who play catcher and some other position like 3B or OF.

On the pitching side, I could go with the best starter--likely Kevin Brown or Justin Verlander--or the best reliever--Mariano Rivera. One issue with Verlander is he doesn't have quite enough innings to easily pair with modern relievers, you really need to get about 1100-1200 innings from your bulk guy and then 300-400 from your reliever. Kevin Brown would have done that but he went the pick ahead of me. I eventually settled on Rivera since he works in a lot of scenarios--he has about 400 innings so is easier to pair with one other pitcher. He also can work in the Bucky Walters scenario. No other reliever comes close to his combination of volume and quality.

Round 02.06: Bucky Walters
Verlander and Chipper go with the immediate next two picks. I'm second-guessing myself a bit, but decide that Betts is the best guy to get. He would be a key cog in a 2-hitter scenario, playing SS, 2B and all 3 OF spots. He could pair nicely with someone like Torre or Rudy York who have catcher and 3B eligibility plus the bat to DH and play 1B. One downside is that's an all-RH hitting lineup and with poor infield defense. But nobody else offers that versatility. Unfortunately, Betts goes two picks ahead of me. Killer.

What to do now? No bulk pitcher stands out, the best are Gibson, Nolan Ryan, Marichal. But they're not much better in quality than Walters top few seasons, plus he comes with an additional reliever. I look at the next-best hitting options--Torre, York, Berra, Mauer, etc. at catcher. My issue here is I'm not sure which path I'm taking. If I go the 3-hitter path, I don't need to waste a bullet on a catcher/3B/OF type now and can just take a catcher-only later on. If I go the 2-hitter path, I'm not sure exactly which SS I'm pairing with and guys like Mike Schmidt, Alex Bregman, or Manny Machado have 3B ratings but need help at 2B. I could go with the SS first but again I have the same issue. If I want more versatility I get a worse player, someone like Ketel Marte or Ernie Banks or Bregman/Schmidt/Machado either are lesser quality players or have major out-of-position penalties if I use them all over the field. And if I go the 3-hitter path, I'd rather have someone like Arky Vaughan or Tulo probably.

I then come back to pitching, thinking I'll just get the best left-handed reliever and Billy Wagner in particular stands out. I had kind of settled on him before I realized that if I take him and DON'T get Walters, I'm screwed. I THINK I can wait on Walters...right?! But is Wagner really that much better than Kimbrel or Doolittle or Miller or whoever I can get later, especially in a capped league?

UGH. After tying myself in knots, I finally decide I need to just pick a path and go with it. I decide to take Walters now as (a) that allows me to know I have the 2-hitter/3-pitcher path locked up and (b) I can pair up my hitters and second reliever better later on knowing how much salary cap I'll have left. I don't feel great about this pick, but I'll probably be the only team without a 15 hitter/10 pitcher split so at least I'll be unique. I'm not feeling confident it'll work out though.

Round 03.06: Ketel Marte
A few of my targets go in the remainder of the 2nd round--Joe Torre, Bench, etc--but luckily with the 3rd round reversal I don't have to wait much longer. I did some more research on my options and settled on Ketel Marte as the best SS version. He'll be rated at SS, 2B, and all 3 OF spots, with average defense at worst (B/C- at SS, A/D+ at OF), but some very good seasons (A/A at 2B). As a switch-hitter, I'll get a bit of a boost and given he hits a fair amount of triples and comes with his own triples park (Chase Field), I may do that. He has three seasons with OPS# over .900, another over .800 and just his SS season will be lower (still .763). He'll be relatively easy to pair with a C/1B/DH type, with only 3B as the hard-to-fill position left. If I can get someone like Rudy York, that would be great as he has a 3B season, if not I'll have to play my catcher there out of position but at least I will have a couple Bucky Walters seasons with decent 3B ratings to come in as a defensive replacement.

My hope at this point is York, Mauer, maybe Victor Martinez or Piazza or someone like that falls to the 4th round, but I have a long wait until my next pick. I'm hoping that the salary cap means that other owners won't draft too many of the big-hitting catchers if they're only planning to play them at one or two spots as that would be a lot of wasted salary. I'll need my catcher clone to fill at least 4 full-time spots and maybe 4 1/2 given Marte is a bit light on PAs in some of his seasons.

Pitching-wise, I doubt Billy Wagner makes it back to me but he would be ideal. Most likely, I'll just take the best releiver, preferably a lefty, who I can get in the 5th round.

Round 04.19: Joe Mauer
The few picks right after my Marte pick were brutal--two of the top lefty relievers (Wagner and Hader) went as did York, my best hope for a C/1B/3B/DH/OF. Luckily for me, it was pretty smoothing sailing the rest of the way. Yogi Berra, one of my potential safety nets, went along the way. But I had a few options ahead of him. I started building out some potential teams, starting with my catcher options. I tried Mauer, Cochrane, Dickey, and Victor Martinez, among others. I liked Mauer the best as he has a combination of a few helpful things: lefty bat, solid 1B fielding season, enough PAs, good fielding grades at C that I hope translate to other positions. Luckily, most others are focused on saving money at the catcher spot so Mauer slides through to me.

He will be my full-time catcher, 1B, and DH, so no problems there as his 2012 season is B/A- at 1B, his 2009 season with 1.004 OPS# (and only a D+ arm, so it's not wasted!) will DH, and of course he has good catching seasons with A arms. However, he will also need to play a fair bit at 3B and RF. Will his "A/A" fielding/range at catcher matter as he plays out-of-position? I'm not sure. I do at least have a 245 PA Bucky Walters who isn't terrible at 3B (C/B defense, OPS# over .700) so he can be a defensive replacement and maybe play against some lefties. In the OF, some of my Martes are a bit short on PA so I probably need at least the left-handed side of a platoon in one OF spot, so maybe 2/3 of a season out there. Will have to juggle some lineups for sure, but hoping the defense won't be too bad at 3B/RF.

Round 05.06: Andrew Miller
With 5 owners between my last two picks, each picking twice, I had to decide which spot to take first--my catcher or my 3rd pitcher. Four of the 5 owners still needed a catcher, though the way things were going, Mauer was probably pretty safe to pass through. Only two of the 5 needed their reliever, but I could see either going with Miller or Chapman, who was my backup options.

I went Mauer first as I thought the dropoff was bigger at catcher, but my Mauer/Miller combination fit perfectly so I was hoping to get both and happy when Miller fell to me. With Miller, I'll get almost 300 innings of elite power pitching. He has a couple seasons with some HR proneness and a couple with some control issues (high BB), but with OAVs hovering around .160 I'm hoping it will be fine. I may be able to start some of his extreme seasons as an opener in friendly ballparks, though a couple of his IP/G are so low he can't even get to the minimum 20 Pitches. Regardless, he gives me a lefty out of the pen to go with my righties Bucky Walters and Mariano Rivera.

As for Walters, his three best seasons all had ERC around 2.50 and 300+ innings. I went with 1940 and 1944 as his 1939 year had an inflated salary thanks to his .800+ OPS. Those two seasons will be my starting rotation. For his 3rd year, I took his 1945 season with 177 IP and 3.27 ERC. My other 12 pitchers have over 1300 innings, so this last year will be mop-up/spot starts as necessary for fatigue, but hopefully low-leverage innings. It also tucked in nicely under the salary cap with just a $4.7m salary.

Post-Draft:
My pitching staff will look like this:

Bucky Walters: 2 SP seasons with 623 IP and 2.52 ERC# combined
Mariano Rivera: 5 RP seasons with 387 IP and 1.31 ERC# combined
Andrew Miller: 5 RP seasons with 297 IP and 1.45 ERC# combined
* 1307 combined "good" innings with 1.92 ERC#
* mop-up Bucky Walters (177 IP, 3.27 ERC)

My position players will look something like this:

C 06 Mauer
1B 12 Mauer
2B 24 Marte
3B 10 Mauer / 33 Walters
SS 18 Marte
LF 19 Marte
CF 24 Marte / 23 Marte
RF 23 Marte / 08 Mauer
DH 09 Mauer

We'll play at Chase Field, which is +3 for triples and +1 for singles and doubles, pretty neutral on HR (+1 to LF, 0 to RF). Marte is a pretty good triples hitter, though Mauer of course isn't. Both hit for pretty good average and have some doubles pop. My pitchers, for the most part, aren't homer prone, and with 10 relief seasons I will hopefully be able to suppress OAV.

I have no idea how this team will do. Win 90? Lose 90? Neither would surpise me. I did spend almost exactly even on pitchers and hitters, $60m each. My guess is my pitching will be better than my hitting, but I'm curious how other teams will spread their money (I'm guessing we won't see $60m+ just on Hornsby or Mantle right?). At the very least, I don't have too much wasted money. Most of my excess is in a little bit of dynamic salary inflation for Rivera and Mauer and from paying catcher salaries for my 3rd/4th Mauers for what will be an out-of-position 3B/OF. I'm rolling with just above 6200 PA and just shy of 1500 IP. My defense should be average, with some really good (Marte at 2B, Mauer at C and 1B), some average (Marte in the OF and at SS, Walters at 3B), and some potentially bad (Mauer at 3B). This was a fun draft and the cap definitely made the strategy much more intricate.
12/17/2024 1:07 AM (edited)
Rogers That!
Oakland Coliseum

Like many others, I had Jimmie Foxx as the belle of the ball. Once he left, I pretty much had it decided I would take a hitter, as that side of the ball required more flexibility.

Rogers Hornsby (1B, 2B, 3B, DH, Bench)
I had Rogers Hornsby at the top of my list, as he could play 2B and SS, until I came to the painful realization that his SS season was one season too early to meet the 1920 threshold. Ultimately, it came down to Hornsby or Chipper. I went with Hornsby because he could play 2B, but in the grand scheme of things, it didn’t really help, because leaving both SS and C empty created more complexity down the road. I probably should’ve gone Chipper here for his switch-hitting, but Hornsby does have some stud seasons and he usually does well for me.

Dennis Eckersley (SP4, SP5, RP1, RP2, RP3)
Part of me feels like I made this pick too early, given the limited options to fill my remaining offensive holes without wasting salary. Initially I planned to use 5 of his relief seasons, but the flexibility came in handy later on when trying to fit a quality starter in under the cap.

Given the cap, I can’t use Eck’s stud ’90 season, but his others (’88, ’89, ’92) are quite good and usually perform well for me. With only two lefties in my division (Speaker and Snider), this should turn out to be a solid choice.

Harvey Kuenn (SS, CF, RF, Bench, Scrub)
I had my eye on Mike Redmond, but 3day grabbed him a few picks before me. I was hoping I was the only one on to him, as he had a lot of low PA, high-production seasons to combine into a starting C. I was shocked to discover how good he actually was – surprise he didn’t have more seasons as a starter in RL.

I had resigned myself to finding a good SS and playing him out of position in the OF, but then stumbled on to Kuenn, who has a B/A- SS season and a B/A OF season to man CF. He hits for good average and doesn’t K much, so I considered this a huge win. He also has a $200K season, and a .300+ $700K season to help with the cap.

Jonathan Lucroy (C, LF, Scrub)
I had two spots left to fill and needed to be strategic to not waste money. Lucroy brings a good full-season catching option, plus 3 more solid partial seasons I can combine into my LF. His $200K season rounds things out nicely.

Roy Halladay (SP1, SP2, SP3, RP4, Mopup)
I went through so many options here, rotating different versions of Eckersley to see who fit well. Guys I strongly considered were Saberhagen, Lowe, Oswalt and even Mike Scott to get the Astrodome, but that would’ve wasted too much salary.

I initially selected Lowe, but thankfully realized in time I didn’t actually have as many innings as I thought and wasn’t comfortable with it, so I pivoted back to Halladay. I had my eye on him the entire time, but wanted just a bit more cost efficiency. I didn’t find it, so Doc it is.

I’m happy with this selection, especially in a pitcher’s park. He doesn’t walk many, is decent at preventing homers, and is usually effective for me.


Overall, I’m not sure how I feel about this team. It was hard to have a plan for this draft beyond the first pick or two, given the unique holes each owner would have to fill. In hindsight, I should’ve jumped at SP earlier, but I felt like I was in a blackhole when that second round pick came along – all the SPs available at the time felt like a reach, so stud RP felt like the way to go.

Ultimately, my division features 5 righty hitters, 2 switch and two lefties, so my pitching choices are as optimal as they could be. My division also features two lefty starters in Newhouser and Hubbell, and the other team (Greinke) has a lefty reliever in Wagner. I think my high-BA, lowish-K, all-righty lineup should do very well vs Newhouser and Hubbell.

With only $1M in wasted salary, I feel like I'm in better shape than most teams budget-wise.

Lineup
’54 Kuenn (SS)
’27 Hornsby (2B)
’21 Hornsby (3B)
’25 Hornsby (DH)
’59 Kuenn (LF)
’23 Hornsby (1B)
’14 Lucroy (C)
’58 Kuenn (CF)
’12/16/17 Lucroy (C)

Wasted PAs (salary): 113 ($451,202)

Totals: .342/.407/.529 (B-/B)

Pitching
’11 Halladay
’08 Halladay
’06 Halladay
’85 Eckersley
’84 Eckersley

’00 Halladay (mopup)
’05 Halladay
’88 Eckersley
’89 Eckersley
’92 Eckersley

Mopup IP (salary): 68 ($589,915)

Totals: 1,454 IP, 1.07 WHIP, 1.54 BB/9, 0.70 HR/9
12/17/2024 3:17 PM (edited)
Updated my post to include total team stats.
12/17/2024 4:29 PM
Pre-draft: Having secured the 14th spot from which to choose my draft position, I was hoping to secure a spot on one of the ends. Many of the early positions were taken and Schwarze grabbed the last position, so I decided to grab the 13th slot. This keeps me out of the pitching dominate National League, assuming all the starting pitchers will be grabbed early, also it also keeps me out of Schwarze’s division in the American League. Maybe Jimmie Foxx could slide to #13, LOL. Picking 13th also kept me in the middle of each round so I wouldn’t have long periods watching the talent come off of the board. Let’s see what happens…

Round 1: Second pick Juice grabs Foxx, I was so hopeful, maybe delusional is a more accurate description. When my turn comes up my top two choices are Kevin Brown or Alex Rodriguez. I had Kevin Brown as my 9th best pitcher but decided having A-Rod who qualifies for SS and 3B would be more beneficial especially if I could grab a left-handed starting pitcher because of A-Rod’s decent glove on the left side of the infield. A-Rod would have to play out of position at 2B and 1B plus he can fill DH. He also has two cheap seasons at $265K and $745K, if I find that $120 Million doesn’t go as far as it used to. I should have anticipated just that, in light of Soto’s contract - $51M per year salary. I was pleased with this choice but second guessed my decision initially.

Round 2: I want a stud lefthanded or switch-hitting outfielder to pair with A-Rod. Top choices are Mantle, Speaker or Musial. Ybjsports snipes Mantle three picks before my turn so I grab Speaker, however at the time I did realize that I wouldn’t be able to fit all of the "big seasons" under the salary cap. I’m going to have to save some money on my catcher.

Round 3: Enter catcher, Jim Leyritz – two seasons at $200K, his 1997 season has a A/A/A+ defensive rating albeit only 455 plate appearances which apparently may come in handy with team Schwarze (Raines & Molitor). I really had to save salary with this pick and got nervous when 3dayrotation selected Mike Redmond nine slots earlier fearing a catcher run. Pitching be damned…

Round 4: I had four starters on my radar: LH’s Hal Newhouser & Lefty Grove or RH’s Dazzy Vance & Gaylord Perry – I had considered Juan Marichal, but his homerun ratio concerned me because I want to use a more homerun friendly park to aid A-Rod. Newhouser is lefthanded with the lowest homerun ratio. Also, getting a lefty would enable me to get a right-handed relief pitcher and there are more righties available than lefties at this point. I select Newhouser as he falls to me.

Round 5: In search of a righthanded relief pitcher I narrow it down to either Joakim Soria or Jason Isringhausen. I then considered my ballpark and determined that Chase Field (1/1/3/1/0) is my best option and Soria qualifies. Speaker hits triples and A-Rod should hit homeruns to left field.

Summary: I used 3 A-Rod’s 2B, SS, 3B and 5 Speaker’s OF, 1B, DH. Not sure how the team will perform but it was a lot of fun to build, plus I can’t wait for Cuda’s write-up. My catcher spot is a little weak with the bat, and playing A-Rod at 2B is a concern (A-/D as a SS) along with Speaker at 1B (C/A as an OF) but otherwise the team should hit. Pitching overall (normalized) 1520 IPs, 2.47 ERC and a .29 Homerun ratio. Play ball!

12/18/2024 12:30 AM
I had the 16th pick for spots and decided to try to be the last team drafting in my division in Round 2, so I'd get a better first choice and then be able to see what my division mates did to see how it impacted my thinking. Also, because of the R3 flip, I thought it was better to pick lower to start. So, 17 it is. My initial plan was to take a SP first because of scarcity, and I always expected to take my C and 1B/OF type late because I knew there would be enough good choices left.

Round 1, Pick 17: Frankie Frisch (1921, 1923, 1924, 1927, 1936)
You generally know you've picked well when you hear lots of other owners bemoaning missing out on someone. I use Frisch frequently because what's not to like about a speedy switch-hitter with a plus glove? His only downside in this format is no really cheap season, so I'm mostly wasting $1.66M on a guy who has no one to hit for and can't run or field. I knew I'd be covering 2B, SS and 3B with him, and I wound up putting one version OOP at 1B after not getting anyone who has ratings there ultimately. If he'd been gone, I probably would have taken Rose or Raines instead. If Carl Hubbell had still been available at this slot, I might have been really tempted. Ybj took him one pick before me, so that took away the decision. If I wasn't getting a SP first, I was getting someone who filled some infield spots at minimum.

Round 2, Pick 8: Nolan Ryan (1981, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1991)
I liked a handful of pitchers fairly equally at this point and definitely considered going RP or C here. Marichal, Perry, Sale, Burnes, Hunter all were on my list too. But I remembered playing a clone league somewhat similar to this a couple years ago and getting owned repeatedly by the Ryan pitching staff (I want to say it was jfranco77's team, but I may be wrong). I had this image of Ryan walking everyone, but instead he kept throwing a lot of 2-hitters and 3-hitters and shutting my team down. Also, taking him here let me lock in a stadium and a strategy that worked well with Frisch: Astrodome, baby.

Round 3, Pick 8: Josh Hader (2017, 2018, 2019, 2021, 2024)
I was definitely going to take a RP here before the big run, and I certainly hoped for a lefty. I didn't think I could afford Wagner and still roster a decent OF/1B/DH type. Doolittle and Miller were light on innings (unless I wanted to use one of Ryan's lesser big-inning Angels seasons, but who wants their pitcher with the most innings to be their worst starter? I save that for the random box score league where you make do with few options.) Tug McGraw was a pretty good option (went undrafted, right? kinda surprised), and I very much like Joe Nathan in a spot like this ... but he's another righty. I did the math and saw I could get 1,383 innings with Ryan/Hader, plus hopefully as big K pitchers they get a few more pitches to work with. And in the Astrodome, I'm helping them as much as I can. Also, for a modern RP, Hader actually can throw more than 10-15 pitches so that doesn't hurt. If only I didn't loathe the guy in RL, but you can't have everything.

Round 4, Pick 17: Gregg Zaun (1996, 1997, 2001, 2009, 2010)
Like the famed Mr. Redmond, Zaun is a build-a-bear catcher whose five seasons get me 649 PA for $4.4M. Also, he's a switch-hitter with about 400 decent PA. One of his seasons has a little pop and can start selective road games where that plays. The downside is he can't throw out my great-grandma, and Raines and Rickey in particular will torment me in this side of the bracket. But, you know, something's gonna give.

Round 5, Pick 8: Tony Gwynn (1986, 1987, 1989, 1997, 2001)
I looked at a lot of options here. Edd Roush tempted me with great speed, defense, average and triples, plus an A+++ range season at 1B. I thought hard about Max Carey, with A+ defense across the outfield and great SB% and another switch bat. Similarly, I eyed Willie Wilson, who might have racked up 100 plus plays in the OF but without all of Carey's errors. Ken Williams has been great for me in other leagues, but he hits too many HR to be ideal for me here. Earl Averill, Goose Goslin, Earle Combs and Roberto Clemente all looked decent too. Ultimately I decided on Gwynn because he's pretty speedy in 3 of the 4 seasons I'll be starting, hits for way better average than any of the other guys, and still plays tolerable defense. So many alternate universes I'd like to play out with different guys, truly.

Outlook: First off let's discuss my favorite stat about my team. Ryan struck out 301 guys in 1989. My entire offense combined in this league struck out 300 times (Gwynn, the slacker, twice fanned 35 times). My second favorite stat is .199, as in the worst OAV of any season I've rostered. In raw stats, Ryan/Hader have a .178 OAV and struck out 1,768 in 1,383 innings. It's got to be the least hittable pairing you could hope for, plus a park that helps them further. Yes, the walks scare me, and some teams might take good advantage of the wildness. That's the risk here, but I think it's one worth taking.

My eight non-catchers hit at least .328 and include seven seasons of 80+ speed. Overall my raw slash is .335/.391/.469. I think we'll do a lot of damage to righties who let the ball get put into play, and there are a few of those out there. I think we can score runs on the road anywhere. It feels like a dangerous team to me. That's probably the kiss of death, though, because this owner group is outstanding and just getting a WC will be an achievement. I'm looking forward to finding out, though.
12/18/2024 2:32 AM
Enjoying the writeups and hope to post one myself. Interesting to see mentions of my picks in several of these already.

redcped - I used a staff of Ryan/McDowell in one of these a while back so that could have been my team you remember. It worked out better than I imagined as those two issued walks like crazy. They started slowly, particularly McDowell, but he came around.
12/18/2024 11:13 AM
Posted by ybjsports on 12/18/2024 11:13:00 AM (view original):
Enjoying the writeups and hope to post one myself. Interesting to see mentions of my picks in several of these already.

redcped - I used a staff of Ryan/McDowell in one of these a while back so that could have been my team you remember. It worked out better than I imagined as those two issued walks like crazy. They started slowly, particularly McDowell, but he came around.
That could well be the one I’m thinking of. Did you also have Raines? That combo is stuck in my brain.
12/18/2024 11:52 AM
I have always been a huge sucker for clone leagues. First came the schwarze/juice clone tournament. Yes, I entered 16 teams and volunteered for more. Yes again, maximum suckage prevails. I all clone leagues: high cap low cap and I always lose. I once drafted a team made up entirely made up of Pete Rose and Pete Alexander. I called them, "For Pete's Sake". They lost 150 games including the first 48 in a row. I am pretty sure I hold the record for the most losses in WiS history. Currently -242,692 in 2739 seasons.

Well, let's get to this one. I almost didn't join this one because it included a draft. I don't do drafts anymore. Witness the fact that I was late with every draft pick and was the absolute last to enter my team. I humbly ask you all to forgive me. I thank calhoop for his patience and his help. He is a true and dear friend. I have made so many friends on this site. Many of them know the last two years of my life have been a living hell. It is really bad when you start fearing you will die and then start praying that you will. Right after Covid quarantine I found out I had been an untreated diabetic for many years. I also found out I have every rare neuromuscular condition. It is an auto immune condition where your body attacks itself destroying nerves and muscles. I need to change my username since I am no longer a fat boy. I went from 250 pounds to 170. I can't drive a car or walk more than twenty steps or stand for more than 15 minutes. I take 4 medications for the pain and inflammation and 9 other pills to counter the side effects. These drugs while easing my pain and helping me sleep cause drowsiness, blurred vision and fatigue. There is no schedule. I sleep four hours am awake 3 hours and sleep for 4hours, etc, etc, . That is a very long and boring explanation of why I missed all my draft slots.

Now to explain my draft strategy. This won't take long. I have so much clone experience, I needed no research or planning. Everyone I wanted to draft was available when I took them. That is the opposite of Frankie Frische for redcped. Nobody wanted any of mine. lol.

Tom Seaver; This is reason for my downfall. I draft with my heart and not my brain. I began really following baseball with the 1969 Miracle Mets. I was in the 8th grade and Tom Seaver was my hero. I like using him since has three great and another three good high IP seasons. He is the first strike out pitcher (except Bob Feller). He was before Ryan and the big Unit. He still holds many records. Lots of strike outs and few BB. Doesn't give up the long ball.

Johnny Bench: Another hero and IMO the greatest catcher of all time. He has power and no one has his arm and defensive skills. He plays 1B. 3B and OF. He is my C, 1B, LF, DH and oh, yes Bench on the bench.

Billy Goodman: ?This is my clone hidden secret. Not many know him. He played in the shadow of Ted Williams, Bobby Doer and Johnny Pesky. He played every position but catcher. He played 16 seasons with a lifetime BA of .300 and OBP of .376. He is my 2B, 3B, SS, CF and RF.

Rollie Fingers: I love this guy. I would draft him just for his moustache. Plus, now my bullpen has five Fingers. It was him or the Goose (his moustache wins 2nd place). But Schwarze grabbed him (no mean task if you've lived on a farm). Rollie played when closers pitched more than one inning, so he has a lot of IP's. Plus, he won the CY Young and MVP in 1981. Nuff said.

Willie Bloomquist:? Another of my clone league favorite. He also plays every position except C. Nine seasons under $1M and one at 200K. He will fill my bench and platoon at SS and in the OF.

Safeco Field: I am the complete picture. I suck at stadium selection also. I usually use Bloomquist so I can use the Kingdom. I went the opposite direction this time. It negates Bench's power at home but Goodman has exactly 19 HR in 16 years.

My Projection; I have the utmost respect for my three division mates. I have competed against all three in hundreds of leagues over the years. Many of them I created. I predict I will be dwelling in the cellar working on my craft beer. In all likelihood this is the last league I join. There are six waiting forever to fill that I may just drop out of. There is no chance I will advance to next round of schawrze tournament.

I have been chosen for an experimental treatment and study back at UCSF hospital sometime next year. It will either cure me or kill me. I am comfortable with either of those outcomes.

FBD/Mike




12/18/2024 9:49 PM
Damn Mike - had no idea you had all of that going on. Best wishes for you going forward brother - and here's hoping you get in that experimental treatment and that it works wonders.


12/18/2024 11:23 PM
Posted by redcped on 12/18/2024 11:52:00 AM (view original):
Posted by ybjsports on 12/18/2024 11:13:00 AM (view original):
Enjoying the writeups and hope to post one myself. Interesting to see mentions of my picks in several of these already.

redcped - I used a staff of Ryan/McDowell in one of these a while back so that could have been my team you remember. It worked out better than I imagined as those two issued walks like crazy. They started slowly, particularly McDowell, but he came around.
That could well be the one I’m thinking of. Did you also have Raines? That combo is stuck in my brain.
Yep, that was me. And I had Raines penciled in for my 1st pick this time but hoped he would make it around in the 2nd rnd. Unfortunately that didn't happen but I'm pretty happy with Mantle.
12/18/2024 11:48 PM
I was lucky enough to get an early pick in the round to select draft position. I never varied from the strategy in this round that the earliest pick available in the first round is where I wanted to draft. I got draft slot #6.

Round 1, Sandy Koufax.
When I started to prepare for the draft, I knew I wanted a starting pitcher here. In most draft leagues, getting a stud starter to anchor the staff is usually a good idea but when you can get an entire 5 man rotation at once, I just never thought to look anywhere else. I made a list of about a dozen potential SP choices. Koufax was not even on that list. Three of the first four picks took starting pitching: Kershaw, Sutton and Maddux. I was totally locked into Randy Johnson and out doing errands when nocomm999 sniped me on him. I really had not planned for a strong plan B. Of course, Pedro was still there but I was not going to be able to fit his 2000 season in with the cap and I have not had the greatest success with him anyway. I also wanted someone with some chunkier IP/360 seasons. So I defaulted to what I thought were my primary wants: 1) a lefty that had at least 4 good seasons with either a fifth good season or a cheap-salaried puntable year. I wanted the lefty to be able to handle the inevitable teams with Ruth and Bonds and Ted Williams. What do I know? Anyway, I have not used Koufax much and figured it would be worth a try. On the good side, I was able to fit in all 5 of his good seasons for a total of 1,375 innings.

Round 2, Tony Fernandez
Everybody loves versatile switch-hitters and Tony Fernandez checks a lot of boxes for me. Great fielding shortstop options with decent hitting. Crappy fielding 2b and 3b options with good hitting but very cheap. A lot of seasons overall, which help with the ultimate puzzle-solving of getting under the cap. Before I decided on Fernandez, I was sure I would take either Arky Vaughan or Luke Appling and play one season out of position at 2b for either one. Will hope for the best here.

Round 3, Smoky Burgess
At this point I needed to fill three categories. 1) Someone who was catcher eligible. 2) Someone who could cover all three outfield positions and 3) A pitcher to compliment Koufax. I was hoping to get somebody from either category 1 or 2 that could play 1b and also DH. Everybody needs a catcher-eligible and there are a lot of outfielders and relief pitchers still available. 8 catchers have been taken at this point, some of them pretty creative choices not on my radar. Already gone were Foxx, Boudreau,Torre, Bench, Redmond, York, Leyritz and Inge. I really thought I would pull the trigger on Victor Martinez who could play catcher, 1b and DH. I also liked Mickey Cochrane who could handle catching, DH and maybe out-of-position 1b. For some reason, Smoky Burgess weaseled his way into my mind and I started concentrating on all those cheap end-of-career seasons to go along with his one solid offensive season, best suited to DH. No 1b help at all here. Buyers remorse is peaking.

Round 4, Stan Musial
With the Burgess blunder, I felt I had to hit on all five of my offensive needs with this pick. 3 OF, 1 DH and 1 1b. This eliminated candidates like Bonds, who I thought I could fit under the cap. In retrospect, I have no qualms about playing 1b out of position (probably not the wisest concept) and could have still gone that way. Anyhow, my decision was between 3 guys who did have 1b eligibility, Ken Griffey, Jr, Babe Ruth and Musial. The Griffey seasons I wanted to use were all just a little too expensive. Ruth would have been fun and I may have taken him if I didn't need at least one outfielder with some kind of range. I went with Musial because he seemed to be the best overall alternative.

Round 5, Neftali Feliz
Just a few picks after I took Musial, I was looking to see if there were any hybrid players that had both pitching seasons and hitting seasons that would be useful. In the current schwarze/juice extravaganza I am playing a 1928 Braves team that is using two pitching versions of Johnny Cooney. I remembered he had some hitting seasons as well but did not realize he had a couple with excellent OF defense and batting averages over .310. I could take 2 pitching seasons to go with Koufax's five and use one or two strong fielding seasons and upgrade any Musial PA I would be trading in for. I eventually decided that any Cooney offensive seasons would ultimately subtract from Musial's overall value and looked at low-inning relievers as well. There are a lot to choose from but once I hit on Neftali Feliz that old theme-within-a-theme flashing light went on. You know, Feliz Navidad. End of story, sort of

Stadium, Comerica Park
Of course, once I got Jose Feliciano into the mix, I had to look to see if I had any qualifiers that would allow me to play in Detroit. Most of us remember the "controversial" version of the Star Spangled Banner that Jose performed at the 1968 World Series at Tiger Stadium, just a month after his cover of Light My Fire peaked at Number 3 on the charts for 3 weeks. Anway, Neftali Feliz had a Tiger season in 2015 so Comerica was as close as I could get.

I really enjoyed this draft and appreciate all of the thought that everyone put into working with this framework and with the write-up in this thread.


12/19/2024 12:13 AM
I would’ve taken Stan with my first puck if Hornsby and Chipper both went. Great fourth round value.
12/19/2024 6:49 AM
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