HD Losing Interest? - Page 10 - Hoops Dynasty

vandydave

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Until they name this game D1 Hoops Dynasty all these suggestions and criticisms of d3 dynasties misses the mark.

4/3/2007 10:22 AM

steviescott

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Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 4/03/2007
Until they name this game D1 Hoops Dynasty all these suggestions and criticisms of d3 dynasties misses the mark.

Agreed.

And if a new coach is really interested in learning how to be successful, he'll do his homework and will be able to field a competitive DIII team in three seasons.

If someone is not willing to put in the work to figure out what works and what doesn't, they will eventually quit anyway because they'll hit a point where they won't be able to win.

4/3/2007 10:33 AM

AlCheez

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There really aren't that many dominant D3 dynasties. New players aren't getting crushed on a consistent basis by guys who have been at their programs for 15 years and are always an elite team. Since reward points for long term lower division teams have been slashed and they still exist to the extent that they do, it's clear that people have them because they enjoy them. My D-III dynasty is in a conference entire made up of coaches that I am friends with. It's just fun. Telling long term coaches they can't play the game in a way that is fun for them is bad for business too.

I seriously think the learning curve (as has been mentioned) is the primary issue that confronts new users. You can never make that completely go away, nor should you, but I really think they need to create an opportunity for new players to get their feet wet before they get thrown in to the fire. And give them an immediate opportunity to play. Someone who shows up new at the site today would find they can't start playing for over a week. You lose impulse customers that way.

4/3/2007 10:37 AM

oldresorter

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I think I am hearing that a 12 team developmental league would be nice, starting whenever the 12 fill.

I'd limit players to one seaseon of eligibility

I am guessing that within reason, they could find a veteran coach to sponsor each league, be available to answer sitemails, post on the conference boards, etc .... i.e. do lots of the things that the current d3 dynasty coaches do anyhow

4/3/2007 10:44 AM

davis

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Quote: Originally Posted By oldresorter on 4/03/2007
I think I am hearing that a 12 team developmental league would be nice, starting whenever the 12 fill.
I'd limit players to one seaseon of eligibility
I am guessing that within reason, they could find a veteran coach to sponsor each league, be available to answer sitemails, post on the conference boards, etc .... i.e. do lots of the things that the current d3 dynasty coaches do anyhow

I would certainly participate as a veteran coach in this capacity. I could teach the new players how to lose early in the post-season, as well as how to whine about the results!

Seriously, this sounds good - the only change I might make is to give players two seasons of eligibility, so that the new coaches can get a feel for how much a player will improve in the offseason. One other suggestion I'd have is to write special "pro-active assistant coach" code for the learning leagues - software that would basically issue tips and warnings when it was clear that a new player was committing some obvious errors. I'd be willing to serve on a "veteran coach committee" to help develop the kinds of things the pro-active assistant would monitor.

4/3/2007 10:54 AM

oldresorter

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davis -both are great ideas, my hunch is if you turned the beta tester group loose on this concept, they would come up with dozens of really good things.

4/3/2007 11:09 AM

cbriese

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To dispel the myth that new players to DIII don't have an opportunity for success, take a look at the Naismith DIII playoffs going on right now. In the field of 64, here's this season's demographic:

Years experience Number of teams

One season 7

Two seasons 9

Three seasons 9

Four to five seasons 9

Six to nine seasons 11

10 to 14 seasons 9

15 to 21 seasons 9

Average: 6.8 seasons/team

39% of the teams in this year's tournament are in their third season or less, likely playing with someone else's seniors. Note that these include two #1 seeds, a #2 seed and a #3 seed. More than half of the field is in their fifth season or less.

4/3/2007 11:24 AM

nfet

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Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 4/03/2007

Until they name this game D1 Hoops Dynasty all these suggestions and criticisms of d3 dynasties misses the mark.

Something's name isn't the be all and end all of defining it. It's just a name. I could easily turn it around and say that until they name this game Entry Level Dynasty, longterm D3 coaches are missing the point.

AlCheeze, you make some good points. I can understand how freezing out people who want to pay and play at the DIII level would be bad for business. Mybe it just comes down to personal opinion. My thoughts are that it's more discouraging for new people than it is encouraging for Vets. WIS knows better than me & maybe that's why they haven't made bigger strides to get rid of DIII dynasties.

I dont think it's only getting crushed consistantly by DIII powerhouses that is discouraging, but simply having their presence. HD is a game that isn't spelled out fully in the faq and certainly takes time to learn....especially in recruiting. When you're battling to make it further than coaches who are "in the know" right off the bat, there's a sense of limited aspirations. The ceiling of what you can realalistically hope to advance to is a lot lower than would be in a true entry level division.

4/3/2007 11:45 AM

nfet

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I'm certainly not saying that new coaches can't have success. I'm talking about enrollment and filling up worlds. Who's to say if that 39% was actually 50, 60, 70 or 80% that more people would be playing and sticking with HD and worlds would be filling up and WIS would be making more money and thus improving the game more and everyone would finally be reaching their potential, just like the season wrap-up emails promise ;)

39% isn't that impressive a number for me.

4/3/2007 11:54 AM

cbriese

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Quote: Originally Posted By nfet on 4/03/2007
39% isn't that impressive a number for me.

It's actually quite impressive to me, given that I made one NT in my first six years in Naismith. This was largely because I wasn't very good, and needed the extra experience to get to the point where I can make myself believe I know what I am doing.

4/3/2007 12:08 PM

cbriese

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One thing that hasn't been brought up is that HD is, in fact, three completely different games in DIII, DII and D1. Recruit quality and distribution, coaching turnover, eligibility rules, and practice plans are all different, and force you to treat each level as unique. I enjoy having teams at each level.

4/3/2007 12:12 PM

vandydave

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Quote: Originally Posted By nfet on 4/03/2007
Quote: Originally Posted By vandydave on 4/03/2007

Until they name this game D1 Hoops Dynasty all these suggestions and criticisms of d3 dynasties misses the mark.

Something's name isn't the be all and end all of defining it. It's just a name. I could easily turn it around and say that until they name this game Entry Level Dynasty, longterm D3 coaches are missing the point.

AlCheeze, you make some good points. I can understand how freezing out people who want to pay and play at the DIII level would be bad for business. Mybe it just comes down to personal opinion. My thoughts are that it's more discouraging for new people than it is encouraging for Vets. WIS knows better than me & maybe that's why they haven't made bigger strides to get rid of DIII dynasties.

I dont think it's only getting crushed consistantly by DIII powerhouses that is discouraging, but simply having their presence. HD is a game that isn't spelled out fully in the faq and certainly takes time to learn....especially in recruiting. When you're battling to make it further than coaches who are "in the know" right off the bat, there's a sense of limited aspirations. The ceiling of what you can realalistically hope to advance to is a lot lower than would be in a true entry level division.

someone who went to a d3 school, lives near a d3 school, or just likes d3 for whatever reason should have every opportunity to make a dynasty at that level. d3 dynasties exist in real life, and they should have every chance to exist in HD.

4/3/2007 12:59 PM

vandydave

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Quote: Originally Posted By cbriese on 4/03/2007
Quote: Originally Posted By nfet on 4/03/2007

39% isn't that impressive a number for me.
It's actually quite impressive to me, given that I made one NT in my first six years in Naismith. This was largely because I wasn't very good, and needed the extra experience to get to the point where I can make myself believe I know what I am doing

agreed, if i were making my division's national tournament after only a couple years on a job I would be thrilled - sounds like someone wants this to be Easy Instant Gratification Dynasty.

4/3/2007 1:00 PM

mullycj

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Quote: Originally Posted By nfet on 4/03/2007
I dont think it's only getting crushed consistantly by DIII powerhouses that is discouraging, but simply having their presence. HD is a game that isn't spelled out fully in the faq and certainly takes time to learn....especially in recruiting. When you're battling to make it further than coaches who are "in the know" right off the bat, there's a sense of limited aspirations. The ceiling of what you can realalistically hope to advance to is a lot lower than would be in a true entry level division.

With probably 20-30 actual Dynasties out of 384 possible teams in each world at the DIII level, certainly a new user can find 350 other teams to play where they won't get "crushed". And since many of these dynasty teams play against each other, the process of scheduling "even" games should be that much easier.

4/3/2007 2:03 PM

jjboogie

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not making the NT in my 1st few seasons made me enjoy this game much more long term...

if someone can't handle this game after 1-2 seasons of getting their *** kicked, my guess is they probably weren't willing to put in the effort, do the research, read the forums - what have you - in order to figure the game out...and thus they probably would leave either way - whether they made the NT or not...

i really think this game either "does it" for you or it "doesn't do it" for you...in general terms - you either become and addict or you don't - at various levels...

the lack of new coaches is probably still caused more by a lack of strategic marketing and advertising if you ask me...

with the exception of a few of the incredibly bad teams that have been run into the ground by SIM and have horrible locations to recruit from, it's not hard to at least build a DIII team into an occassional NT entry withing 2-4 seasons...which is the way it should be (i think)

4/3/2007 2:17 PM

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