our Fans  make up the difference...oh and we can make the playoffs

I wonder...who has made the playoffs more times since the canucks joined the nhl...them or the hawks?

 whats that got to do with the present?  who's bagged the most skanks since 1990?  we are not living in the past Andru.. you probably werent as fat and had hair 10 yrs ago

Edler, Hamhuis and Ballard all out for at least three more weeks?

They would be most teams top three D men. 

Andru, How would Chicago do without Seabrook, Keith and Hjalmarsson for long term???

Hat's off to Gillis for adding depth on D.

A Rome signed as UFA (750k)....A Alberts for 3rd round pick (1.050 mil)...C Tanev signed UFA (.450k)  Only Alberts was expected to play in the NHL this season, but thank Gillis for getting all of  them.

Posted by andru2797 on 2/13/2011 1:50:00 AM (view original):
I wonder...who has made the playoffs more times since the canucks joined the nhl...them or the hawks?

Well it would unfair to count the Canucks first 4 seasons as they were an expansion team only allowed to have garbarge so teams like Chicago could have all the good players. A team the Canucks finished ahead of in their 5th season. Also Chicago was the best team in hockey in the '67 season. what ever came of that. 

Having two young stars locked up long term when you can't make the playoffs is kind of like saying you have DePietro locked up long term.   

Seriously? Rome, Tanev and Alberts are your answer? Cmon. You guys know better than that.

I only brought up past playoff success because that seems to be how Canuck fans measure success in the NHL. Making the playoffs. Well making it isn't good enough for me, sorry.

No I was thinking more of the Sedins and Kesler (and Burrows actually) being signed long term at bargains, the potential of guys like Schneider and Hodgeson and yes Tanev, and the relative youth of Edler, Kesler, Burrows, etc. 

Let's put it this way. If the Canucks do win the cup, they won't suddenly jettison the heart and soul of their team. Next year's team should be better.     

ok but by the same token I don't think we've seen the best out of toews, kane, bolland, morin, hjalmarsson, Seabrook, frolik, Crawford or leddy either. and the hawks also have Kyle beach, Dylan olsen, and now Alexander salak coming up as well. and does anyone really believe that Jonathan toews ISN'T the heart and soul of this team? I'd rather be going in to the next decade with toews, kane, hossa, Keith and Seabrook than with the sedins, Kesler, edler, hamhuis and luongo.

also, how do you figure the canucks can keep everyone? my math tells me that the canucks have about 45 million locked up in their top 6 forwards, 4 defensemen and starting goaltender (sedins, Kesler, Raymond, samuelsson, burrows, hamhuis, elder, ehrhoff, ballard, luongo) ...the hawks have about 45 million in their top 6 forwards, 4 dmen and starting goaltender (toews, kane, Sharp, hossa, bolland, kopecky, Keith, Seabrook, hjalmarsson, Campbell, Crawford). so explain to me again how the hawks are in worse shape than the canucks cap wise?

Obvisously Tanev, Rome and Alberts are not the same players as Elder,Hamhuis and Ballard but those individuals have stepped up and are gaining much experience.I don't know who you have in the system but most teams would have a hard time replacing 1st line D like we have.

As for cap space we may have to deal some players but not even close to the fire sale you had last off season.

Ehrhoff, Bieksa, and Salo are free agents. I assume Salo will be gone and probably one of the other 2  will have a cheaper alternative. Not a concern. You should have some turnover for youth. They've being playing 2 of top 6 out most the year anyway. As long as they keep replacing the prospects. It'll be tough Vancouver drafting last for the next 5 years though. 

But the key is, the top 8 forwards are signed next year and the rest of them aren't that important, except Hansen who won't be expensive. Glass can come back cheap and Hodgeson can come in. 

Torres and Tambellini can move on to Chicago. I'd kind of like to see Raymond go with them but that won't happen.

Guys I understand all that, but if you do a player by player comparison of who each team has signed for next season and for how much, all I'm saying is that the Hawks are no worse off than the Canucks.

Hawks:
Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Bickell, Campbell, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Scott  = roughly 42.97 million
Assuming Seabrook (4.5), Kopecky (2.0), Brouwer (2.0) and Crawford (2.0) re-sign for the amounts I'm thinking that they'll get (a total of 10.5 million), that brings the Hawks to about 53.47 million for next season with their top 9 forwards rounded out (except for one), their top 4 defensemen and starting goaltender.

Canucks:
Sedins, Kesler, Raymond, Malhotra, Samuelsson, Burrows, Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler, Rome, Tanev, Luongo = roughly 45.74 million
Assuming Cody Hodgson finally sticks in a top 6 role next season (at a cap hit of  about 1.6 million) and they re-sign Ehrhoff (or another equivalent top 4 defenseman at about 3-3.5), that brings their total to about 50.84 million with 4 forwards left to sign. Sounds an awful lot like the Hawks situation doesn't it?

I'm not disputing the fact that the Hawks lost alot last season, but any team with the ridiculous depth that the 2010 Hawks had has to let go of guys at some point and I still believe they made the right choices given the alternatives (letting go Sharp, Bolland, Seabrook, etc...). Even last season I was saying it's now or never for this group, and they did it.

Posted by andru2797 on 2/14/2011 6:19:00 PM (view original):
Guys I understand all that, but if you do a player by player comparison of who each team has signed for next season and for how much, all I'm saying is that the Hawks are no worse off than the Canucks.

Hawks:
Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Bickell, Campbell, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Scott  = roughly 42.97 million
Assuming Seabrook (4.5), Kopecky (2.0), Brouwer (2.0) and Crawford (2.0) re-sign for the amounts I'm thinking that they'll get (a total of 10.5 million), that brings the Hawks to about 53.47 million for next season with their top 9 forwards rounded out (except for one), their top 4 defensemen and starting goaltender.

Canucks:
Sedins, Kesler, Raymond, Malhotra, Samuelsson, Burrows, Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler, Rome, Tanev, Luongo = roughly 45.74 million
Assuming Cody Hodgson finally sticks in a top 6 role next season (at a cap hit of  about 1.6 million) and they re-sign Ehrhoff (or another equivalent top 4 defenseman at about 3-3.5), that brings their total to about 50.84 million with 4 forwards left to sign. Sounds an awful lot like the Hawks situation doesn't it?

I'm not disputing the fact that the Hawks lost alot last season, but any team with the ridiculous depth that the 2010 Hawks had has to let go of guys at some point and I still believe they made the right choices given the alternatives (letting go Sharp, Bolland, Seabrook, etc...). Even last season I was saying it's now or never for this group, and they did it.

I would have traded Campbell or hossa at a loss just to keep any combo of buff, ladd, versteeg, and/or niemi. Those contracts are the death of the hawks and will be as long as those contracts are on the payroll.

Posted by andru2797 on 2/14/2011 6:19:00 PM (view original):
Guys I understand all that, but if you do a player by player comparison of who each team has signed for next season and for how much, all I'm saying is that the Hawks are no worse off than the Canucks.

Hawks:
Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Bolland, Bickell, Campbell, Keith, Hjalmarsson, Scott  = roughly 42.97 million
Assuming Seabrook (4.5), Kopecky (2.0), Brouwer (2.0) and Crawford (2.0) re-sign for the amounts I'm thinking that they'll get (a total of 10.5 million), that brings the Hawks to about 53.47 million for next season with their top 9 forwards rounded out (except for one), their top 4 defensemen and starting goaltender.

Canucks:
Sedins, Kesler, Raymond, Malhotra, Samuelsson, Burrows, Hamhuis, Ballard, Edler, Rome, Tanev, Luongo = roughly 45.74 million
Assuming Cody Hodgson finally sticks in a top 6 role next season (at a cap hit of  about 1.6 million) and they re-sign Ehrhoff (or another equivalent top 4 defenseman at about 3-3.5), that brings their total to about 50.84 million with 4 forwards left to sign. Sounds an awful lot like the Hawks situation doesn't it?

I'm not disputing the fact that the Hawks lost alot last season, but any team with the ridiculous depth that the 2010 Hawks had has to let go of guys at some point and I still believe they made the right choices given the alternatives (letting go Sharp, Bolland, Seabrook, etc...). Even last season I was saying it's now or never for this group, and they did it.

Hodgeson is signed next season at a cap hit of 0.787 mill. As of yet he hasn't earned more than that.
Resign Hansen at a raise. Surprised if over 1.3 mill.
That's not only 9 forwards but your top 9 forwards. You only need 4th liners. Resign Glass (0.625 mill) and whoever else.     

Ehrhoff will likely get much more than 3.5 and be gone.

So let's say 13 forwards (add Glass and 3 young pluggers, no different than this season)  31.3 mill
5 Dmen  14.15 mill
2 Goalies  7.616 mill

I get 53.066 mill needing a NHL Dman (probably Alberts (say 1.5), Bieksa?) and a depth Dman. What's the cap next season?
My guess is they'll find a way to keep Ehrhoff, though I don't know how.

Schneider might be traded for a "Good" prospect, but that won't help much with the cap. 


The trouble with all this andru is you're trying to draw payroll comparisons between a contender and a non playoff team. More relevant would be how Chicago stacks up against Edmonton's payroll.   

actually peter, since were talking about next season, neither team is a contender or a non-playoff team yet. and your calculations are not including a top 4 dman, which you will need, and which will cost a minimum of 3 million, unless you really believe the canucks would be comfortable starting the season with Rome or tanev in their top 4.

I believe even its all said and done, both teams will spend close to the cap and both teams will contend next season, because let's not forget the 4 million of bonuses the hawks didn't have this season. in essence, they were playing with a smaller cap than everyone else, hence the necessity to make all these moves. and for those saying that its as simple as trading Campbell and/or hossa, I have 2 very important points you may all be forgetting:

1. they both have no movement clauses

2. I would keep hossa, a proven nhl star calibre player who is one of the best two way players the game, over any two of versteeg, byfuglien, ladd or niemi simply because the only thing those players have proven is that they are wildly inconsistent, and I'd rather have the sure bet, especially at a manageable cap hit like hossas 5.2 million.

Nice pass by Luongo to Steen???  Hopefully Steen added Luongo to his X-mas card list...........