Posted by malone9975 on 8/12/2011 11:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 8/12/2011 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by logain on 8/12/2011 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Hakeem's 10 less to's and 7 extra steal's seem like the big difference in the box score. Shaq got to the line more but only made 6 more fts.

Comparing these two is very interesting to me, but comparing either to Kareem or Wilt is just plain silly.  Sure Hakeem had one truly amazing season, but Kareem and Wilt each had many of those seasons, and sure Shaq was an incredibly efficient and dominant offensive player, but so were Kareem and Wilt, and they played defense and didn't miss half the season many times.

If Olajuwon played in that era who is to say that he would not have put up simliar stats to Kareem or Wilt.  The game in that era was faster and teams shot at a lower percentage so more rebounds and more scoring opportunities existed.  Olajuwon played when teams were not focusing on big men as much and offense was starting to revolve around the wing.  Hell many season Dream had to deal with guts like Vernon Maxwell and Sleepy Floyd who would chuck up as many shots as possible.  I couldn't count the number of times I saw Olajuwon start a break with a blocked shot or steal, and finish it on the other end with a dunk or a layup.

Amen malone, he was a one of a kind! The best player he played with during his championship years was Thorpe who was an extremely underated defensive player who could score around the basket and board but wasn't much of a shooter. The only PF who played better D than Thorpe during his career with the Rockets was Rodman and possibly Horace Grant.

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 10:19:00 PM (view original):

Posted by logain on 8/12/2011 3:20:00 PM (view original):
just because this isn't actually a league.. doesn't mean you can't send proxies out. I've been sitting at my computer lesson planning all week.. could have made proxy picks for people. That is mostly the case next week too. (weekend not so much)

Proxy's are fine to speed things up

If we continue at this pace I have zero interest in drafting 8 players.

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 10:18:00 PM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 8/12/2011 3:48:00 PM (view original):

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 9:26:00 AM (view original):

Posted by ashamael on 8/12/2011 3:11:00 AM (view original):
I don't know about the whole 'winning the big game' thing... I threw darts at a Stockton basketball card for months for his series-winning jumper over the Rockets that sent them to the Finals.  Top 12 is debatable, but I honestly can't think of any point guard that wasn't already drafted that I would take above him.  Pure point guard, anyway.  I can think of a combo guard that should have already been taken that I'd take above him, though.

The only true PG that I'd even say it was close with would be Payton... but the Glove hurt his teams with erratic shooting more than Stockton helped his with his masterful ability to read the defense and get the ball to the right guy... and, not to mention, be able to nail a jumpshot.  Payton's EFG% was only 49.6% for his career.  Stockton's regular fg% was 1.9% higher than Payton's efg%.  His efg% was 5% higher than Payton's.  And Payton took many more shots, often ill advised.  I'll take Stockton's offense over Glove's any day... enough so that I'll even ignore the fact that Glove was one of the best defenders at the PG position to ever play.

Counter to Malone making Stockton:  Malone wouldn't have gotten all those easy, wide-open lay-ups if it wasn't for Stockton and his ability to both shoot & pass.  Remember, when teams have to defend both parts of the pick 'n roll, it makes both parts even more effective.

Defense is just as important as offense since everyone will probably have at least 4 great offensive players. One bad defensive player in your lineup could very easily be exposed. With that said I would take Payton over Stockton even though Stockton was an excellent defensive player Payton was the best defensive PG ever and his defensive versatility would be huge. Payton was a great player and also had a great career. There are 2 other PG's I would throw in with these 2 who are just as good if not better.

Yeah, but poor shot selection hurts a team, too.  And this was the knock on Payton.  Take a look at what happened when you put him with three other great scorers.  Did he become a pure point guard?  No.  He wanted his share of the offensive glory.  You think it'd be any different with guys other than Shaq, Mailman & Kobe?

And, as you say, you'll probably have at least 4 great offensive players... so why not draft somebody that'll get them the ball instead of taking ****** shots?

Just my feelings.

You build your team and then add a player like Stockton, I wouldn't build a team around Stockton in a draft like this. There are way too many great players to take him that high but you may end up with an awesome team anyways but we all obviously will so I guess we will have to wait & see, especially the wait part of it. I think it's cool you took him 12th cuz he was an awesome player who deserves recognition for an incredible career! I'm really interested to see who you finish your team with.

I took Kareem.  I wouldn't build my team around Stockton either... I'm just callin' you out for saying he's not a good shooter and then bringing up Gary Payton as someone who was better.  The irony of that was what got me started.

Posted by longtallbrad on 8/12/2011 8:27:00 PM (view original):
I think a posted schedule would be a good idea.

AMEN!

Posted by snydpie on 8/12/2011 10:29:00 PM (view original):

Posted by malone9975 on 8/12/2011 11:20:00 AM (view original):

Posted by all3 on 8/12/2011 10:32:00 AM (view original):

Posted by logain on 8/12/2011 9:59:00 AM (view original):
Hakeem's 10 less to's and 7 extra steal's seem like the big difference in the box score. Shaq got to the line more but only made 6 more fts.

Comparing these two is very interesting to me, but comparing either to Kareem or Wilt is just plain silly.  Sure Hakeem had one truly amazing season, but Kareem and Wilt each had many of those seasons, and sure Shaq was an incredibly efficient and dominant offensive player, but so were Kareem and Wilt, and they played defense and didn't miss half the season many times.

If Olajuwon played in that era who is to say that he would not have put up simliar stats to Kareem or Wilt.  The game in that era was faster and teams shot at a lower percentage so more rebounds and more scoring opportunities existed.  Olajuwon played when teams were not focusing on big men as much and offense was starting to revolve around the wing.  Hell many season Dream had to deal with guts like Vernon Maxwell and Sleepy Floyd who would chuck up as many shots as possible.  I couldn't count the number of times I saw Olajuwon start a break with a blocked shot or steal, and finish it on the other end with a dunk or a layup.

Amen malone, he was a one of a kind! The best player he played with during his championship years was Thorpe who was an extremely underated defensive player who could score around the basket and board but wasn't much of a shooter. The only PF who played better D than Thorpe during his career with the Rockets was Rodman and possibly Horace Grant.

yooo..what about drexler?

and i was kinda young when thorpe was ballin but his career numbers say he was a pretty damn good shooter....as for defense what about kemp or oakley or buck or malone

Bob McAdoo sorry guys

Joining Kobe in the backcourt.. Another championship winning killer–

Zeke – “The Baby-Faced Assassin” – Isiah Thomas

One of the best little guys to play the game.

Leader of two NBA champion Piston’s teams.

At one time held the APG record until Stockton beat it a few years later.

Exciting ball-handler, superb passer, would drive it into the teeth of the defense.

Clutch. Winner. Super competitive.

A quote from Isiah:

Quote: "I'm the only guy walking the face of the earth that can say I beat (Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, and Michael Jordan) more than they beat me..."

Accomplishments:

Elected to Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame

NBA champion (1989, 1990)

NBA Finals MVP (1990)

All-NBA First Team (1984, 1985, '86)

All-NBA Second Team (1983, 1987)

NBA All-Rookie Team (1982)

12-time NBA All-Star (1982-93)

NBA All-Star Game MVP (1984, 1986)

I have the heart/will/killer instinct categories covered with Kobe and Isiah. Building around 2 guards is not something often successful in NBA history but I don’t think 2 guards this good ever played together. Against teams with dominant bigs we may have to resort to Hack-a-shack-or-wilt but we’ll see how the draft plays out. I like my start anyways.  I considered a couple more talented guys here but I couldn’t see getting another guy to compete with Kobe for top scorer on the squad.  If I have to go against Jordan, Bird, Magic.. and against the best paint defenders ever.. I need a guy with no fear. That’s Isiah.

Another note, I have managed to add another sex offender to my team!

This forum is doing exactly what it was intended to do which was create some healthy debate and discussions over the best players of all time.  Even in how this draft is interpreted is up for debate with is it a career pick or a season pick, is it for the best player available or is it best for the team you are drafting.  To keep the debate going I believe there are two players not yet picked who are clearly the best left relative to all time great NBA players, so I have to take one of them. 
Again, like my first pick, this guy is not necessarily a SIM favorite of mine, but this isn't a SIM team, so I have to go with the guy who
 
Holds the NBA  finals scoring record of 46 ppg.
The only guy to ever be finals MVP on a losing team.
Averaged 27 ppg for his 14 year career (with no 3-point shot
Was an all-star every one of his 14 seasons
Was first team NBA 10 times
6th all time in ppg
24th all time in apg
3rd all time in steals per game
                                                                     
Jerry West

Yep sweg west and the other guy.. Were the two best players on the board when I picked. Didn't think either fit as well with kobe.

Quick pick here.  This guy is progressing nicely and I think would be a perfect compliment to Duncan.  
Good luck getting to the rim against my front court:)
More explanation to come later regarding...
Dwight Howard

There could be an argument that I have 2 centers, but only Howard is a true center.  Both are 100% PF in WIS (whatever that's worth).   One of Duncan's biggest shots of his career was a 3 pointer, so we know what he can do facing the basket.
I passed on some great SF's here and that might come back to bite me.  But...twin towers (especially one that can pass the ball), surrounded by low usage shooters is a recipe for success IMO.

09-10 Dwight Howard
6-11, 265 lbs
Center
Orlando Magic

02-03 Tim Duncan
7-0, 248 lbs
Power Forward
San Antonio Spurs

Looking really hard at three different players, each of whom would fit well alongside Shaqorama, but my instincts keep coming back to the dude whose skill set is most unique and who gives me the most flexibility in later rounds.  May be a bit high for him, but I can't say no to...

Scottie Pippen.

That's a great pick Brad.  The guys has the skill set of a #1. 

This guy's drive & passion are not unique, as many of the greatest have those traits.  But for today's game, it sure seems unique.  The guy plays harder than anybody I've seen in a long time and constantly takes the punishment for it.  He's risen to greatness on the game's biggest stage and shown that he can compliment other great players... and can even dominate while those great players are on the floor.  He was the best player on the floor for the Redeem Team, which is saying something when you've got Kobe & Lebron out there.

Offensively he has few holes in his game.  He can post up, he can get by you in a FLASH and into the paint, and he's even learned to shoot the ball.  Defensively he's a monster and can defend the 1, 2 or 3.  And while not most important, the dude can flat out FLY down the court... which will be good with Kareem starting the break.

This pick is none other than Dwyane Wade.



(edit:  And I'm echoing what was said about Zeke having no fear of going into the paint.  You are going to need that in this setting.  Wade has no fear.)

I was close to taking Wade over Pippen, but in the end opted for Scottie's versatility.  

Now I'm watching four guys hard, hoping against hope that one of them falls.