You can only redshirt up until NT

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/4/2022 2:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bdashkiwsky on 11/4/2022 2:08:00 PM (view original):
I learned that redshirting a Sr lets you use their resources twice AFTER learning that withdrawing a redshirt promise gets you about 1/3 of the way from unlocking a scholarship. This whole episode seems to boil down to no one else knowing about it which before this week I didn't realize.

No one knowing about it is the important part here. Everyone knows about Sr redshirt and inel stuff. CS talked with the community about it here in the forums with us. I wouldn’t call that a loophole at that stage. Literally 4 guys in the entire community Is not the same. If everyone here was moderately aware of it, everything would be a lot different right now. Either CS would’ve handled it, or we would all be doing it as if it was the new in thing. Or many other outcomes.

And someone asked what do I mean by “together”. CS claimed you together, in their initial post. Family members or something. I didn’t make that up, it’s here to be read

That was my point. Not everyone does know about the Sr redshirt feature. I don't spend time on the HD forum and neither do a lot of people. Everything I know is from experience and mentorship from cimmy who I had easy access to having worked with him.

So your paying customers find a bug in your code, and you respond by banning their accounts. Classy work from WIS.

Where is Tarek?

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/4/2022 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Good strategy by doogan here... cook up some completely irrelevant "Sr redshirt" talking point and try to deflect. A+++

How is the Sr redshirt thing different from the Inform of Redshirt?

I'm done playing the game so if I wanted to deflect I would just disappear. Which I hope I will do in the next 24 hours or so.

There is a big penalty with the Sr redshirt, a huge WE hit which can cause ratings to go backwards, thats one big difference. The other is, it actually can be a viable option to redshirt a senior, I am doing it now in Tark because I need to balance out my classes and he wasnt going to get much time anyway due to my depth chart, also he is a semi-passable point guard which I will need next season. His WE was already god awful so I dont mind the small WE hit on him.

Thats the difference, you can justify redshirting a senior. The only reason to do what you guys did was to gain a clear advantage.

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/4/2022 2:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bdashkiwsky on 11/4/2022 2:08:00 PM (view original):
I learned that redshirting a Sr lets you use their resources twice AFTER learning that withdrawing a redshirt promise gets you about 1/3 of the way from unlocking a scholarship. This whole episode seems to boil down to no one else knowing about it which before this week I didn't realize.

No one knowing about it is the important part here. Everyone knows about Sr redshirt and inel stuff. CS talked with the community about it here in the forums with us. I wouldn’t call that a loophole at that stage. Literally 4 guys in the entire community Is not the same. If everyone here was moderately aware of it, everything would be a lot different right now. Either CS would’ve handled it, or we would all be doing it as if it was the new in thing. Or many other outcomes.

And someone asked what do I mean by “together”. CS claimed you together, in their initial post. Family members or something. I didn’t make that up, it’s here to be read

As for our real life relationship, I already addressed that also:

Finally to address the relationship between me, Cimmy, and Robinhood. For one, if our goal was to collude and hide our relationships, it wouldn't have made much sense to play in the same conference and play each other twice a season. We all grew up Temple fans and A10 fans, so we eventually ended up there. As Cimmy was building up the St. Joe's program (after I was already established at Temple) we did battle for a couple recruits. But we also did try to steer clear of each other. Is that collusion? I'm sure some would say yes. I don't think so. I try to avoid battles with A+ schools. Cimmy ran Flex and I ran Triangle. If there was a 5-star near Philly with a Flex preference, I would assume Cimmy was going to prioritize him and I would look elsewhere. Duke and North Carolina were often overlapping in my hunting grounds in like Virginia and Maryland. I think I may have battled them a total of once or twice in like 30-some seasons. Those aren't the battles I want to fight. For whatever reason, I did end up in a lot of battles with theword at Boston College. I think he would tell you that, even in the last couple years, he probably beat me out more times than I beat him. Because, again, 40 extra APs were very unlikely to swing those battles. But anyway, if there are real-life friends or fathers/sons out there playing in the same world and level, I would assume they are trying not to battle each other for the same recruits much and I don't think that's collusion.

I’m really not concerned with your relationship outside of HD, said nicely. Just inside HD. And I’m not going to argue any longer. I’ve actually lightened my stance with The Redshirt Foursome a LOT more than most people here. Remorse is the most important thing for me. And at this point, you’re not changing and neither am I. So what’s the point?
I’m glad robinhood sees thru an open mind and the community will gravitate back to him more then they will the rest of you. Watch and you’ll see, is all I’m saying.

Its like when you’re on trial, you Apologize to the families and act like a decent human being, you get to go home sooner. If you fight long and hard to continue to deceive the people, it won’t be as easy for you.

if the family has a big problem ahead, I’d suggest letting Robbinhood talk to the police as your representative. The rest of you would surely end up in a worse predicament without him leading the way. The man gets it. You guys have a great day. I don’t hate ya, and I hope you continue playing, unlike some coaches here. I just have nothing left to give that I already haven’t said.

I can buy a lack of clarity from the original CS response obfuscating this issue.

But, from my understanding of this, it seems very disingenuous to boil it down to just the number of AP this provides directly and compare it to senior redshirts. Opening a greater amount of players early is an advantage to the coach doing it but when a high prestige team gets their name up on recruits, we all know it discourages other teams from going after players, especially on midrange players and backups where people want to minimize resources spent. I mean, cmon. Clearly this had a big ripple effect.

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/4/2022 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Good strategy by doogan here... cook up some completely irrelevant "Sr redshirt" talking point and try to deflect. A+++

How is the Sr redshirt thing different from the Inform of Redshirt?

I'm done playing the game so if I wanted to deflect I would just disappear. Which I hope I will do in the next 24 hours or so.

An important point on the Senior RS thing is that *everyone* knows about it. It was shared by the HD community and it was discussed at length.

The Inform Redshirt thing was kept as a secret. I get why you guys used it and hid it. It gave you a *huge* advantage, it was a valuable and almost imperceptible boost, and your close-knit group benefited from it... all positives from your perspective, and you gave a half-hearted mention of it to CS...

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/4/2022 2:40:00 PM (view original):

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by topdogggbm on 11/4/2022 2:16:00 PM (view original):

Posted by bdashkiwsky on 11/4/2022 2:08:00 PM (view original):
I learned that redshirting a Sr lets you use their resources twice AFTER learning that withdrawing a redshirt promise gets you about 1/3 of the way from unlocking a scholarship. This whole episode seems to boil down to no one else knowing about it which before this week I didn't realize.

No one knowing about it is the important part here. Everyone knows about Sr redshirt and inel stuff. CS talked with the community about it here in the forums with us. I wouldn’t call that a loophole at that stage. Literally 4 guys in the entire community Is not the same. If everyone here was moderately aware of it, everything would be a lot different right now. Either CS would’ve handled it, or we would all be doing it as if it was the new in thing. Or many other outcomes.

And someone asked what do I mean by “together”. CS claimed you together, in their initial post. Family members or something. I didn’t make that up, it’s here to be read

As for our real life relationship, I already addressed that also:

Finally to address the relationship between me, Cimmy, and Robinhood. For one, if our goal was to collude and hide our relationships, it wouldn't have made much sense to play in the same conference and play each other twice a season. We all grew up Temple fans and A10 fans, so we eventually ended up there. As Cimmy was building up the St. Joe's program (after I was already established at Temple) we did battle for a couple recruits. But we also did try to steer clear of each other. Is that collusion? I'm sure some would say yes. I don't think so. I try to avoid battles with A+ schools. Cimmy ran Flex and I ran Triangle. If there was a 5-star near Philly with a Flex preference, I would assume Cimmy was going to prioritize him and I would look elsewhere. Duke and North Carolina were often overlapping in my hunting grounds in like Virginia and Maryland. I think I may have battled them a total of once or twice in like 30-some seasons. Those aren't the battles I want to fight. For whatever reason, I did end up in a lot of battles with theword at Boston College. I think he would tell you that, even in the last couple years, he probably beat me out more times than I beat him. Because, again, 40 extra APs were very unlikely to swing those battles. But anyway, if there are real-life friends or fathers/sons out there playing in the same world and level, I would assume they are trying not to battle each other for the same recruits much and I don't think that's collusion.

I’m really not concerned with your relationship outside of HD, said nicely. Just inside HD. And I’m not going to argue any longer. I’ve actually lightened my stance with The Redshirt Foursome a LOT more than most people here. Remorse is the most important thing for me. And at this point, you’re not changing and neither am I. So what’s the point?
I’m glad robinhood sees thru an open mind and the community will gravitate back to him more then they will the rest of you. Watch and you’ll see, is all I’m saying.

Its like when you’re on trial, you Apologize to the families and act like a decent human being, you get to go home sooner. If you fight long and hard to continue to deceive the people, it won’t be as easy for you.

if the family has a big problem ahead, I’d suggest letting Robbinhood talk to the police as your representative. The rest of you would surely end up in a worse predicament without him leading the way. The man gets it. You guys have a great day. I don’t hate ya, and I hope you continue playing, unlike some coaches here. I just have nothing left to give that I already haven’t said.

I won't watch and I won't see because I'm done with the game. I'm not going to apologize when I did nothing wrong. Not gonna happen.

One other thing. Generally, this week we other HD'ers have been very, very restrained in our reaction to being *absolutely hosed* for 3 frickin years.

In reality, i'm absolutely ripped that this sh-t happened, and it wouldve continued indefinitely if not for swenske having overdone it.

What the F man. We enjoy the game, and put **money** and effort into it. Waste a lot of time. Analyze numbers, count AP's, count money, invest a lot of effort. Holy sh-t.

I agree with Top, where Robinhood realizes he was wrong and has owned up. Youre playing the victim. But *you* weren't wronged, ok. *We* were.

Posted by npb7768 on 11/4/2022 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:24:00 PM (view original):

Posted by npb7768 on 11/4/2022 2:22:00 PM (view original):
Good strategy by doogan here... cook up some completely irrelevant "Sr redshirt" talking point and try to deflect. A+++

How is the Sr redshirt thing different from the Inform of Redshirt?

I'm done playing the game so if I wanted to deflect I would just disappear. Which I hope I will do in the next 24 hours or so.

An important point on the Senior RS thing is that *everyone* knows about it. It was shared by the HD community and it was discussed at length.

The Inform Redshirt thing was kept as a secret. I get why you guys used it and hid it. It gave you a *huge* advantage, it was a valuable and almost imperceptible boost, and your close-knit group benefited from it... all positives from your perspective, and you gave a half-hearted mention of it to CS...

Third time I'm posting this:

3) It's different because nobody else knew about it. I really don't know what the other coaches all know. I'm not someone who reads or writes things on the forums. Before a couple days ago, I'm not sure I'd looked at a forum in like 15 years aside from when a new update to the game was posted and I imagine I did some forum reading when 3.0 first came around. Like I said, I figured the Inform of No Redshirt was not common knowledge. If you had told me 25% of D1 coaches were doing it, I wouldn't have been surprised. So I never mentioned it in the forums or the chat. I also never said, "Hey everyone, if you redshirt a senior you get their recruiting resources for two years." I didn't know, and still don't know, if that "trick" is common knowledge among HD players. I didn't share the knowledge publicly. I gained an advantage in recruiting by doing it. So is that cheating also? Again, I'm sure there are some who say it is. I'd say no.

Is it my responsibility as a WIS player to know what all the other hundreds of coaches know? I honestly have no clue what the level of knowledge is on redshirting a senior. As I've mentioned, just learned that all internationals will take a redshirt. Good on you if you knew that and I didn't.

Topdogg seems like a very involved owner in the game. He just said he's never redshirted a senior in D1. This tells me he either A) vastly underrates/doesn't understand how beneficial it is or B) should be reporting it to CS as a cheating. If you're a good, knowledgeable player, the only good reason to not be redshirting seniors on a regular basis is if you think it's cheating.

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Is it my responsibility as a WIS player to know what all the other hundreds of coaches know? I honestly have no clue what the level of knowledge is on redshirting a senior. As I've mentioned, just learned that all internationals will take a redshirt. Good on you if you knew that and I didn't.

Cool. Keep deflecting, never apologize. Don't take no sh-t off nobody.

Posted by npb7768 on 11/4/2022 2:59:00 PM (view original):

Posted by doogan on 11/4/2022 2:56:00 PM (view original):
Is it my responsibility as a WIS player to know what all the other hundreds of coaches know? I honestly have no clue what the level of knowledge is on redshirting a senior. As I've mentioned, just learned that all internationals will take a redshirt. Good on you if you knew that and I didn't.

Cool. Keep deflecting, never apologize. Don't take no sh-t off nobody.

My whole point here is that I didn't do anything wrong and you saying "Cool. Keep deflecting" is not a convincing argument of my guilt.

The inform of non redshirt would more often than not give a negative benefit. Sometimes you would get a positive benefit. Unfortunately for these guys they were smart enough to realize that they could use it without using AP, and they knew that CS knew about it. Yes, they are victims. Yes, there are many more victims who were recruiting against them than there are them. No, there’s no way for them to have realized that everyone else wasn’t using it also.