Diagnostics for Leadoff Hitters II Topic

MikeT23
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harth, the bet would include 14+ strikeouts. Not that anyone is willing to wager.
2/21/2008 10:20 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
Teams that strikeout 14 times or more in one game(regardless of how many pitchers are used) will not score the league average. Teams that strikeout 13 times or less in one game(regardless of how many pitchers are used) will score more than the league average.
I'm willing to bet on this. Are there any takers?
2/21/2008 10:21 AM
MikeT23
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Original post adjusted to show that 14+ K will be counted on the high side of whiffs.
2/21/2008 10:25 AM
_nuke_
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I just went through the boxscores of every 2007 Yankee game from April through the end of June. I picked the Yankees because they play in the AL and with the exception of a few interleague games, the pitchers don't bat and because, as a team, they strikeout a lot.
Do you know how many games involved either team striking out 14 or more times?
0
I understand that 3 months of Yankee games is still only a fraction of all games played, but a 14+ strikeout game is an outlier.
It doesn't happen often enough to draw any real conclusions. If we are really going to bet then we need to look at the strikeouts for all games and see if they correlate to runs scored.
But anyway Mike, are you arguing that teams score more runs when they strikeout less?
Yes or no.
Answer it.
2/21/2008 10:37 AM
hartjh14
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
harth, the bet would include 14+ strikeouts. Not that anyone is willing to wager.
Still not interesting. 14 vs 13, 10 vs 9, 8 vs 7...those would be interesting to see the results from. If a team strikes out 14 times, there's a good chance the pitcher was locked in that day and it's unlikely that the team would have scored much. You'd have to look at runs scored at every strikeout level and chart it out to be able to even try to draw a conclusion, and I don't think it's really that important.
2/21/2008 10:42 AM
MikeT23
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How do you propose only 19 or 15 outs per game? I'm not going to read past that part of your post until you explain it.
2/21/2008 10:52 AM
MikeT23
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nuke, I'm sure it happens dozens of times a year. I'm equally sure that the team striking out 14 or more times doesn't score very many runs. I'm also equally sure that teams who make 14 or more outs via ground/fly score more on average than teams that make 13 or less out via ground/fly. I'm willing to wager on this. Even if it's only one game in 2008, I'm willing to take my chances. Are you?
2/21/2008 10:55 AM
_nuke_
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Your proposal is flawed. You won't negotiate the terms. You won't answer my question.
You are acting like someone who realizes they are wrong but doesn't want to admit it.
Are you arguing that teams score more runs when they strikeout less?
If you can't answer that, this whole thing is pointless.
So answer it, *****.
2/21/2008 10:58 AM
bosoxbill
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
JUST LIKE BEFORE, I WANT TO EXTRAPOLATE FROM ONE TINY RARE SCENARIO - THEN THE SAC OUT, NOW THE 14+ K GAME - TO ALL OF BASEBALL!
Why not just wager that there's a correlation between strikeouts and runs scored in a game?

Do you think it only kicks in at 14?

Your theory, as I understand it, is that putting the ball in play instead of striking out helps ALL THE TIME, not just at 14+ Ks.

Right? You quoted yourself enough that I think I got the idea that you ALWAYS prefer the batted ball in play for an out to the K.

What's this silliness about 14 Ks, now?

You flip/flopping? That's fine. Only a matter of time, then, before you agree completely with us.
2/21/2008 10:58 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
nuke, I'm sure it happens dozens of times a year. I'm equally sure that the team striking out 14 or more times doesn't score very many runs. I'm also equally sure that teams who make 14 or more outs via ground/fly score more on average than teams that make 13 or less out via ground/fly. I'm willing to wager on this. Even if it's only one game in 2008, I'm willing to take my chances. Are you?


Obviously I'm willing to take this bet with any idiot who has more money than brains(or balls for that matter). If you aren't willing to back up your claims with a couple of bucks, you're simply a blowhard. Which, quite frankly, does not surprise me.
2/21/2008 11:00 AM
MikeT23
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14 was chosen because it was past the halfway point of outs per game. 14/13. I'd be willing to go 12/12 when the home team doesn't need to bat in the 9th. Since all out are just outs, 50% or more seems to be the place to start when proving that strikeouts inhibit the ability to score runs.
Any takers?
2/21/2008 11:05 AM
hartjh14
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 2/21/2008
How do you propose only 19 or 15 outs per game? I'm not going to read past that part of your post until you explain it.
Total runs scored/game when a team Ks 8 times vs total runs scored/game when a team Ks 7 times, etc. Barring a rainout, there will always be more than 19 or 15 outs. Read the rest of it...that's the important part.
2/21/2008 11:05 AM
_nuke_
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Quote: Originally Posted By _nuke_ on 2/21/2008
Your proposal is flawed. You won't negotiate the terms. You won't answer my question.
You are acting like someone who realizes they are wrong but doesn't want to admit it.
Are you arguing that teams score more runs when they strikeout less?
If you can't answer that, this whole thing is pointless.
So answer it, *****.
I have said several times that I am more than willing to bet you on this. If $50 isn't enough, make it $500.

But we have to look at the effects of strikeouts on runs in all games. And for you to win, teams have to show a trend of scoring more runs as the strikeouts decrease. So, for example, a team that strikes out twice consistently scores more runs than a team that strikes out, say 5 times. If that's too much work for you, I'll do it.

Now answer my question, *****. Are you arguing that teams score more runs when they strikeout less?
2/21/2008 11:06 AM
hartjh14
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Quote: Originally Posted By hartjh14 on 2/21/2008
If a team strikes out 14 times, there's a good chance the pitcher was locked in that day and it's unlikely that the team would have scored much. You'd have to look at runs scored at every strikeout level and chart it out to be able to even try to draw a conclusion, and I don't think it's really that important
2/21/2008 11:06 AM
MikeT23
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14 vs. 13 indicates K vs. GO/FO, the bet I've proposed. 10 vs. 9 indicates whatever numbers float in your head.
2/21/2008 11:07 AM
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