Quote: Originally Posted By swamphawk22 on 7/27/2009So I realize that anytime anyone suggests there is something wrong with HBD a samll but fanatical group rise up to deploy their verbal suicide bombs against anyone proposing change. For the record..
1 There are far to few SSs of HBD standards in the game.

2 The SSs in the game are commiting far to many errors.

3 This does not seem to be user error as much as a systemic issue

Thank you for summarizing your position.

As it has been amply discussed and found to be completely erroneous, maybe this thread can finally end.

Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 7/27/2009http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/guillca01.shtml

Quit trying to be as stupid as swamp. It can't be done.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bankser01.shtml

My stupid example made the Hall of Fame, so nyah nyah.

Your stupid example stopped playing SS AFTER he moved to first. My example did not.

Of course, I don't really expect you to understand. You know, because of the stupidity.

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 7/27/2009

Your stupid example stopped playing SS AFTER he moved to first. My example did not.

Of course, I don't really expect you to understand. You know, because of the stupidity.

Huh!?! Read your own link.

2007 - 132 @ SS
2007 - 36 @ 1B

My guess is that he played at least 1 game a SS after "moving to 1B". I will give you that he didn't play SS last season at all though, that much is true. However, he never really "moved to 1B", playing only 24 games there in 2008. "Moved to 3B" would have been much more accurate, playing 89 games there last season.

Or, since you like to keep it short..., your example was just as stupid, if not worse.

you got mike's point twisted.

Indeed, now look who's stupid!!

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Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 7/27/2009Your stupid example stopped playing SS AFTER he moved to first.  My example did not.  Of course, I don't really expect you to understand.   You know, because of the stupidity.

Neither one is an example of a 1B playing SS. They are examples of SS who moved to 1B after they got older.

You do play the stupid card well, I grant you, but you're still not in swamp's league.

It's like you took a 'tard pill and can't get it out of your system. He played SS AND 1B in 2006 AND 2007.

he was a 1B incognito as a SS all along!

I think the best example I've seen of a 1b playing ss is
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml

Quote: Originally Posted By 98greenc5 on 7/27/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By Crump123 on 7/27/2009
That almost proves my point that the penalty for below average defensive players isn't punitive enough.

I don't think I would go that far, because nobody knows exactly how many horrible (or simply not-good-enough) SS are out there

and I also don't think there is any good "control set" to measure how punative horrible defense "should" be

How many errors would David Ortiz make at SS in a season? ... who the hell knows? ... nobody in the MLB would/has done this, so there is no "realism" comparison ... any guess by anybody here would be pure speculation, and whatever result that HBD would generate is probably is good as anything else

I take that, but i think the extremes are too weak for MIF in particular which doesn't force people to look at defence enough, whilst theres a lot more variance for players around averge than i'd expect. A little unreleated but i had an everyday C with ratings of 15,45,75+,75+ lead a league in errors comfortably for two seasons (20+ E), so something is a bit baggy somewhere.

If it was more punitive you would find more of those borderline mid-high 70s SS playing 3B which i think is a bit more realistic. Currently i find it almost impossible to find any decent 3B, i assume mostly as people are using them at SS.

Quote: Originally Posted By Crump123 on 7/28/2009
If it was more punitive you would find more of those borderline mid-high 70s SS playing 3B which i think is a bit more realistic. Currently i find it almost impossible to find any decent 3B, i assume mostly as people are using them at SS.

I'm not sure I can fully reconcile your point(s) ... you want the defense error rate at SS to go up "more" for the not-qualified SS ... which you think will drive owenrs to play them at 3B ... so that there will be more "3B" on the market for you??

you do know you could just sign these "3B masked as SS" and play them at 3B? ... or, sign those defensive SS that people are apparently not using in favor of using 3B at SS and play them at 3B ... or, if the sub-par defense isn't as punative as you think it "should" be, why not join the party and play a RF at 3B?

Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 7/28/2009It's like you took a 'tard pill and can't get it out of your system. He played SS AND 1B in 2006 AND 2007.

I didn't realize Guillen's career began in 2006.

Good try, Mike. I'm sure if you keep at it you can become swamp-like. Maybe if you used more exclamation marks...