Gonzaga has beat out bigger programs for a lot of guys. For example:

-Pargo: Offers from Illinois, Purdue, Arkansas.

-Heytvelt: Offers from Kansas, Wash.

-Sacre: Offers from UCLA, Wash, Mich.

-Downs: Could've gone almost anywhere (Duke, etc.) after leaving Kansas.

-Goodson: Offer from Oklahoma.

-Bouldin: Offers from Cal, BC, NC State.

Daye: Offer from Washington.

To say that they're signing mostly overlooked and over players is simply incorrect.

And yes, I agree that the coach retention problem is an issue at mid-majors. That has been discussed in this thread and others. I don't think that the engine should look purely at baseline prestige (there needs to be some weight to account for all the success), but finding a happy medium between baseline and current prestige would do the trick. (Most of those jobs have baselines in the D range.)

But the other issues are significant as well. When you can literally make the S16 and have your prestige drop, that is a problem, and one that should be addressed in some way.

For all the badger fans, I came across this on a Michigan State forum.

I hadn't realized the rich tradition of the Wisconsin basketball program, but these banners from the Kohl Center are impossible to ignore ;)

ha

Hey, if I had that bad a record against a rival conference school, I'd be trying to make light of it, too. Bo owns Izzo. That's gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 2/02/2010Hey, if I had that bad a record against a rival conference school, I'd be trying to make light of it, too. Bo owns Izzo. That's gotta be a tough pill to swallow.

Exactly.

Best conference record in Big Ten coaching history is...Bo Ryan.

If only he actually recruited great players. Hopefully that's coming soon with Gasser, Anderson, Dukan, and Marshall.

If only Tokoto wanted to stay in the state.

Big game tonight, we'll see, but I think without Leuer we are in trouble.

Agreed. They're too big down low.

That's alright we'll make it 10-0 on the home court. The fact is Coach Ryan does beat Izzo. He has the best winning percentage in the big ten right now. He obviously did beat Izzo when we got that big ten banner in 02, 03, and 08. How many has Izzo got during Coach Ryan's tenure? I'll let the state fans google that one. If we're talking conference play, there is no argument.

...

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 1/31/2010

Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 1/29/2010Pork I think that you and I are in agreement almost completely here. My question to you is this, would you like to see a Floating Baseline Prestige, where over years of continued success a schools Baseline Prestige could get better?
And don't get me wrong, I don't buy into the 5 year plan, my idea for FlBP is the last 20 years of a schools history + additional credit for Final Fours and National Titles, just like in real life those banners do mean something even if they were 25 years go. And use that along with a small portion of what is now the Fixed Baseline Prestige to come up with a more True Floating Prestige, because I think we all can agree that Floating Prestige as it is instituted now isn't really True Floating Prestige since it is dependent on many things that the coach of said school can not control.

Even if you don't see a problem with the current system (and I agree I don't think it is broken by any means) but I see room for improvement.

Not sure if you read this or not tanner, so I am quoting it for you to read my thoughts.

I'm just seeing this thread now and wanted to add my 2 cents for whatever that's worth.

zhawks, I couldn't agree more with what you guys have been saying here. I hate the fact that despite any successes my Georgia team has had over the past 15 seasons in Smith, we're still prone to fall much farther from grace after one bad season than an underachieving Duke program. I understand the need for a baseline prestige to simulate a program's history, especially in the first few seasons of a world, but in order to accurately simulate reality there has to be a way to create your own history. The kids that I'm recruiting right now haven't seen Duke in the sweet 16 since they were 1 year old, yet they know Georgia basketball has made 7 sweet 16s in that time. I think they'd be a little more forgiving of a bad Georgia season than a bad Duke season at this point.

I recently called baseline prestige a crutch for underachieving coaches at silver spoon programs. I'd love to see it adjusted so that HD relies on its own history rather than NCAA history.

Seble has said that while there is no time to discuss this now he is willing to revisit this after the new engine is released.

I think that there is value in keeping baseline prestiges, so that getting a UNC/UCLA job does help you somewhat, but maybe it would be possible to reduce the effect that baseline prestige has on your overall prestige and replace that small amount with the success your team had 5,6,7,8 seasons ago.

So say baseline prestige is 40% of your team's total prestige (the other 60% being last 4 seasons and conf mate's prestige) maybe we can make baseline be worth 20% and seasons 5-8 worth 20% as well.

Going back farther seems to me to be worth doing to cover these types of cases.

baseline prestige should be eliminated. It exists for marketing purposes, not because it is good for the actual game itself.

Quote: Originally Posted By porkpower on 2/01/2010
And I do not see a problem with that, cheez. To me that reflects real life pretty accurately and explains the coaching careers of lots of college coaches. Always moving up to the higher "prestige" job.

Mark Fox - Nevada, Georgia

Anthony Grant - VCU, Alabama

Tubby Smith - High Point, Georgia, Kentucky

Billy Gillispie - UTEP, Texas A&M, Kentucky, Local bars

Could go on and on. You catch my drift. They did not want to stay at their lower level job when the opportunity arose to coach at a big time school. I think HD depicts that part of real life NCAA Hoops very well. Do some coaches stay and try to build their program? Sure. Mark Few has so far and there are a "few" more coaches like that I am sure. Pun intended.

Economics play a huge role in rl, not in hd. That's a key difference. Another key difference is the amount of time coaches spend at their trade at a higher level job and the real pressures they face. Those aren't duplicated either.

Quote: Originally Posted By gomiami1972 on 2/18/2010baseline prestige should be eliminated. It exists for marketing purposes, not because it is good for the actual game itself.

A baseline prestige is needed - it is how you get that baseline prestige that turely matters.