and as far as I can see, you are saying "i'm right because i say so."

1. Being an individual is not allowed. You either agree with the masses or you are called a troll.

2. If you argue a point successfully, many people will do ANYTHING to avoid dealing with it, including ignoring it, saying things to distract from it, and acting as though they misinterpreted it. When you call them out for it, they'll claim to have understood perfectly, and yet STILL refuse to acknowledge the actual point. This is all because they have no counter argument for it.

3. Many people look for a reason to personally attack someone. This is a forum to discuss A GAME. It's really no reason to call people names or attack them on any kind of personal level. Honestly, anyone who does that needs to take a deep breath and relax.

1. This is a misreading of the situation.
     a. There are plenty of individuals here.  gillispie isn't like emy and emy isn't like point_piper, etc.
     b. You are not called a troll because you disagree.  You are called a troll because of how you disagree.  It comes across as disingenuous.

2. This is a misreading of the situation.
     a. Other than the notion that not all players should have the same reaction to the situation, you haven't argued your points successfully.
     b. Your points are being understood.  When others disagree, you figure they must not have gotten what you were trying to say because you're right, dammit, and nobody is going to tell you otherwise!
     c. There have been dozens of valid counterarguments (right or wrong, they're valid) to every disputed point.

3. This is a somewhat accurate reading of the situation.
     a. I don't think people were looking for a reason to personally attack you.  You really rubbed people the wrong way with your argument style.*
     b. Yes, this is a forum on the internet.  Flame wars will happen.  This doesn't even qualify as such.

*I suffer from this affliction.  I can be extremely good at proving people wrong and proving myself right.  Despite this, because of my attitude and phrasing, I am extremely bad at getting them to come around to my position.  In fact, it probably hardens them against my position, despite theirs being discredited.

But dude...

No matter what anyone says, no one has given me a single reason to change my mind in several of the arguments in this thread.

That's just delusional.  Perhaps nobody's succeeded in changing your mind, but you've been given dozens of reasons.

""They aren't bad analogies. They are incredibly straightforward. It just happens the people reading them are deliberately avoiding the OBVIOUS points made by the analogies.

Why would anyone do that? Because if they acknowledge the points being made, they'd have to also acknowledge the inherent truth in them. So they pretend to be ignorant and deliberately misinterpret to avoid that""

It's been said before and we'll say it one last time, we all acknowledge it is unrealistic for everyone to have the exact same response. You haven't made any other points.   The only one who refuses to acknowldge points being made against them is YOU. 

Name calling? really?  That's one of your complaints? You have been calling a fictional player a prima donna and a whiny little *****.  Maybe other people are offended and are only defending your fictional player since he can't do it himself.

You do realize in life that you have little to no control on how somebody reacts to something you do, right?  In communication, you have control of how a message is transmitted, but not how it is received.

I'll say it one more time.  Almost everyone involved in this thread agrees with part of your argument.....not all players should react to the coaches' decisions the same way.  I don't believe they do react the same.  The other part of your argument, that you should have control, by way of a recruiting tool, of how the player reacts or doesn't react to your coaching decisions just doesn't make sense to the masses.  That does not mean it is wrong.  However, you have never given an argument to support this part of the argument.  What you have said, and I'm paraphrasing, is that as the coach you shouldn't have to suffer listening to these whiny little prima donna *******, they should just be happy to be a part of my team.  THAT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT.  The other part of the argument is that it doesn't happen in real life.  This part of the argument is also not valid.  Who is the player that you are using to validate this point.

On a separate point, the word should is rarely a winning word in a debate.  It is far too ideological.  Everyone should have enough food to eat....there should be world peace.  Just because something should happen (a player that tries hard all the time despite no reward system) doesn't mean it exists in the real world.

He isn't even the one that made the point that they shouldn't all have the same response. I believe fd made that point and bis has piggy backed on it ever since and even tried taking credit for it. Fd even called him out on doing so but he's conveniently ignored that post, just like he picks a sentence or two out of most posts, finding statements that are vulnerable for refuting in a vacuum while ignoring the main points of the posts (which provide reasonable arguments against his stance that he avoids).

"Not one person gave one good reason"?  Really?  See, that's the biggest problem with this thread.  You came into it with your mind made up and absolutely refused to even consider anyone else's responses.  In your mind, you were adamant about where you stood and by God, no one would be able to change your opinion, no matter what they said.  Any time someone made a point, you'd say that it was illogical, therefore you wouldn't respond or consider it.  You seem to be so worried about "winning the debate" that you'd just stick your fingers in your ears like a four year-old and "Blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm not listening, I've got my mind made up and you can't change it", and again refuse to even consider someone else's stance.  Sorry, but that's not how you win an argument.  You've had nearly EVERY coach that responded show you where your stance is not rooted in reality, yet you still refuse to even concede that there might be the very real possibility that YOU are the one off base here.  Instead, you just cry about how it's everyone against me and how "you're wrong because we say so".  You'e actually acting like a petulant little child who throws a temper tantrum when he doesn't get his way.

if one believes that every player should behave as instructed by the coach, in life and in the game, then there is nothing anyone can say that would be useful 

people have argued convincingly that that is not how real life works - but that doesnt matter to someone who believes life SHOULD work that way as a matter of belief and personal opinion

people have argued convincingly that that would be bad for the game - but that doesnt matter to someone who believes the game SHOULD work that way as a matter of belief and personal opinion

no one can give an argument that would convince someone whose view is grounded on a personal philosophy of life and human interaction in which everyone should follow instructions and in which everyone will behave as they are expected to behave

so, the results of this thread are not surprising

The biggest problem with the silent treatment is often the fact that you have to announce that you are giving people the silent treatment.

Posted by zbrent716 on 9/3/2012 2:44:00 PM (view original):
The biggest problem with the silent treatment is often the fact that you have to announce that you are giving people the silent treatment.

+1

Also, who really believes that will be his last post of this thread? 

Posted by bistiza on 9/3/2012 2:07:00 PM (view original):
I didn't want to post another response, but I need to be absolutely clear on a few things:

First, I was called a troll simply because I disagreed with the masses. There is no other reason. I'm not disingenuous at all - in fact, I couldn't be more serious in my opinions or I wouldn't both defending them. I absolutely believe what I've said, so to call me a troll because you think I'm disingenuous means you should have stopped being involved in the thread long ago for your lack of understanding it was a serious discussion.

Second, several times there are clear instances where someone has (deliberately or by accident) misinterpreted something I've said and didn't respond to the point I made at all. Even when I cleared things up, some of those same people STILL didn't respond to the point being made, which means they cannot have possibly argued against it as they didn't even address it to begin with.

Third, no one has given me a single good reason to change my mind on several key issues, or I would have done it, as I often do in areas where I don't know things (several times with regard to HD itself and DIII basketball, I made such concessions here). However, on the major points argued over here, not one person gave one good reason why I should change my mind, and that speaks volumes. It's been a great deal of "you're wrong because you're wrong and we say so" and nothing else.

This used to be entertaining to me, but now it's just boring me and wasting time. A few people have actually addressed things from a rather neutral viewpoint and made some useful comments, but to those who just keep saying "you're wrong because we say so", you can keep saying it to yourself, because I'm not going to waste my time responding to that stuff anymore.

so you think "i'm right because i say so" is valid?

So, no player comes to mind that can help support your stance?  Or maybe a coach that has this same philosophy where it worked and not one player ever dogged it for a period of time?

anyway, what was the response CS gave you regarding the ticket you submitted?