Posted by fd343ny on 6/14/2021 6:03:00 PM (view original):
1. The tiers are set here based on baseline prestige - somewhere there is a thread that shows what L-ville baseline is.
2. prestige is a major advantage - you dont get more money, but each bit of recruiting effort you spend is worth more. Now this is less of an advantage if your baseline A team is currently at C prestige. On the other hand a team that is currently an A surely should have more recruiting effect than a team that has baseline A but has fallen to C....??

The advantage between B baseline and B- baseline is approximately zilch. But now you have firing standards for B but not B-. So choosing a B school is kinda silly if using this criteria.

Agree 100% - at the boundaries between each tier there will be interesting choices - which could be view as distortions or just features of certain jobs.

I'm optimistic that my Hawaii team in Crum - where I wont be subject to firing on this scheme - will come to dominate the PAC as others are fired! Well, maybe not......

I think folks who have coached at places like Rutgers and Northwestern (and Hawaii) would argue there is a *bit* of a difference between a B- and a B baseline school. Is it equivalent to the difference between being required to make the tournament once per 4 years no firing concern ever? Probably not. But it isn’t exactly negligible.

Posted by fd343ny on 6/15/2021 8:24:00 AM (view original):
Agree 100% - at the boundaries between each tier there will be interesting choices - which could be view as distortions or just features of certain jobs.

I'm optimistic that my Hawaii team in Crum - where I wont be subject to firing on this scheme - will come to dominate the PAC as others are fired! Well, maybe not......

Haha yeah exactly what I was thinking!

But these requirements aren't going to get rolled out as is, most likely.

i personally think prestige is reasonably meaningful, but that the b- vs b baseline is about as close to negligible as you can get. im fairly skeptical even an astute coach could look at a random handful of resumes from B- schools and a handful from B schools, along with their resultant prestige, and make much better than a random guess about which was which.

Posted by gillispie on 6/15/2021 6:23:00 PM (view original):
i personally think prestige is reasonably meaningful, but that the b- vs b baseline is about as close to negligible as you can get. im fairly skeptical even an astute coach could look at a random handful of resumes from B- schools and a handful from B schools, along with their resultant prestige, and make much better than a random guess about which was which.

Well there is a reason why Rutgers, Northwestern, Fresno St, Hawaii, etc, tend to be the last power conference schools taken, right? At least before the intended change was announced.

Posted by Benis on 6/14/2021 10:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 6/14/2021 6:03:00 PM (view original):
1. The tiers are set here based on baseline prestige - somewhere there is a thread that shows what L-ville baseline is.
2. prestige is a major advantage - you dont get more money, but each bit of recruiting effort you spend is worth more. Now this is less of an advantage if your baseline A team is currently at C prestige. On the other hand a team that is currently an A surely should have more recruiting effect than a team that has baseline A but has fallen to C....??

The advantage between B baseline and B- baseline is approximately zilch. But now you have firing standards for B but not B-. So choosing a B school is kinda silly if using this criteria.

to be fair making the NT 1 out of 4 years is... really easy after you get out of a rebuild. Feels way too easy given that those A+ schools have a nearly impossible task of making a S16 every 4 years

Posted by cubcub113 on 6/15/2021 8:50:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Benis on 6/14/2021 10:43:00 PM (view original):

Posted by fd343ny on 6/14/2021 6:03:00 PM (view original):
1. The tiers are set here based on baseline prestige - somewhere there is a thread that shows what L-ville baseline is.
2. prestige is a major advantage - you dont get more money, but each bit of recruiting effort you spend is worth more. Now this is less of an advantage if your baseline A team is currently at C prestige. On the other hand a team that is currently an A surely should have more recruiting effect than a team that has baseline A but has fallen to C....??

The advantage between B baseline and B- baseline is approximately zilch. But now you have firing standards for B but not B-. So choosing a B school is kinda silly if using this criteria.

to be fair making the NT 1 out of 4 years is... really easy after you get out of a rebuild. Feels way too easy given that those A+ schools have a nearly impossible task of making a S16 every 4 years

That's very true. With the caveat of the rebuild grace period.

But then again. Making the tourney 1 out of 4 years is even easier at d2 and d3 but lots of coaches playing right now struggle with that

Posted by gillispie on 6/4/2021 11:23:00 AM (view original):

Posted by joeykw18 on 6/4/2021 10:29:00 AM (view original):
Anyone else concerned that we haven't heard a peep from admin since this was announced?

i'm not particularly concerned - i'm relatively confident he has been watching the thread (based on no inside info), and is kinda taking it all in and letting it settle, before he gives his reaction. definitely seen him jump right into smaller conversations to stimulate them and get some additional feedback and stuff, to give his reaction in real time. but in this case there is probably plenty of feedback as it is :) and perhaps him jumping in would just add fuel to the fire, which i suspect he wants to avoid. allowing a little time for passions to settle before he gives his reaction to all this, its really not a bad idea IMO.

+1

I haven't followed for at least a week or two, and see this is still growing....Has there been any communication from the admins/developers on any of these 18 pages of concerns?

This has to be one of the dumbest, least thought out proposals I have seen in my ~12 years on WhatifSports.

I, like most, have coached at every level of Hoops Dynasty, and all prestige baselines. I would have been fired from every job under this criteria. Every job. 5 Division 1 National Titles, yet the Admin would have labeled me a squatter/camper and fired me without warning or notice.

I do think its fair to get an "expectations" Warning under the set out criteria. But a firing?

What sense does it make that you could conceivably win a National Title, then be fired in 5 seasons because you lost a bunch of Early Draftees and missed a few recruiting battles.

What sense does it make to take a job at a A+ school that had a bad run, prior owner left a crap roster, and in 4 years you can't ever build the *Actual* prestige (not baseline) up to recruit a roster that could make the Sweet 16. Especially in the current kamikaze recruiting format.

All it takes is one bad recruiting cycle, 3 Draft entries, and you are toast. Thats not a matter of squatting or camping on a good job.

There needs to be some level of nuance. A strong run should toll your Expectations for longer than a full 4 year cycle with a recruiting class. Plus, whats the actual difference between winning in Round 2 and Round 3. How is Making the Tournament once and advancing to Round 3 >>> deemed greater than making the Tournament 4 consecutive years but only advancing to Round 2 all four times? 4 Tourney wins are more than 2.

The only angle that makes sense for WiS is it convinces the user to pay more per season - via just single seasons rather than multiseason discounts - because there is no chance in hell I am buying more than 4 seasons at a time.

As initially proposed, Chris and Adam and everyone else involved KNOW it is not an ideal setup. They've seen the push back from the community. They're reading each and every idea they are presented here. They're evaluating all areas.

Nothing will take place until they announce a second, more well thought out set of criteria. We all need to relax and wait until the next set of firing guidelines get presented....... and THEN we can flip out some more Haha

They've had a month to reply with something. Having no reply after such an outpour of concern is concerning. Just a "hey we are rethinkingthis, expect more in the future" would be enough to give me confidence in the leadership. But that has not happened.

I mean if 270 concerning post isnt enough to garner a response i don't know what is.