The first conference in the first world that I looked at proves, in my opinion, that what you're saying isn't completely accurate.

Virginia isn't an elite team, yet they are an A- in Allen with 1 NT appearance in the past four seasons and only one drafted player in that time.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=7207

Say what you want, but we'll just agree to disagree that D1 is different when it comes to prestige.

Quote: Originally posted by isack24 on 9/27/2009The first conference in the first world that I looked at proves, in my opinion, that what you're saying isn't completely accurate.  Virginia isn't an elite team, yet they are an A- in Allen with 1 NT appearance in the past four seasons and only one drafted player in that time.http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=7207Say what you want, but we'll just agree to disagree that D1 is different when it comes to prestige. 

So tell me about the rest of the research you did? How high is their conference prestige? The higher the Conference prestige is the easier it is to maintain your prestige while having poor seasons.

So you are saying I am lying about how D1 prestige works?

And way to totally forget to mention the PI berths they had. The PI Round 3 is almost equal to an NT berth in terms of prestige bumps.

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 9/27/2009

Quote: Originally posted by isack24 on 9/27/2009
The first conference in the first world that I looked at proves, in my opinion, that what you're saying isn't completely accurate.

Virginia isn't an elite team, yet they are an A- in Allen with 1 NT appearance in the past four seasons and only one drafted player in that time.

http://www.whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/History.aspx?tid=7207

Say what you want, but we'll just agree to disagree that D1 is different when it comes to prestige.

So tell me about the rest of the research you did? How high is their conference prestige? The higher the Conference prestige is the easier it is to maintain your prestige while having poor seasons.

So you are saying I am lying about how D1 prestige works?

First, you haven't said anything about how it works, other than that it's different. So I can't judge whether you are telling the truth.

Second, I understand that different conferences have a base that makes it easier to maintain a high prestige, but your problem is with how "easy" is is to attain a high prestige in lower levels. Well, it cuts against your argument that there are D1 conferences that require less work to maintain a high prestige, doesn't it? That would make it easier to attain a high prestige, wouldn't it?

Date User
8/6/2009 11:37 AM zhawks
Do the elite schools (ie the ones that start with the highest baseline prestige, unc, duke, illinois, kansas, kentucky, ucla, and the others that can't go below a b- prestige) gain prestige faster then other bcs schools?

8/6/2009 4:10 PM Customer Support
Some schools (e.g. UCLA, Duke, Arizona) have a strong tradition so their prestige gets a boost from that outside of whatever affect the current season has.

8/6/2009 7:30 PM zhawks
How is that floating prestige? Where is the WhatIf in following what a school has done IRL?

8/7/2009 10:36 AM Customer Support
Prestige can still change pretty significantly over time, this is just a small boost that helps keep the traditional powers from dropping too much.

--------

Imagine that? I was right and you were wrong?

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 9/27/2009And way to totally forget to mention the PI berths they had. The PI Round 3 is almost equal to an NT berth in terms of prestige bumps

That's because no one gives a crap about the NIT in real life. Fine, the equivalent of two NT appearances in four years. Still, that's what you think it should take to be an A-?

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 9/27/2009Date User
8/6/2009 11:37 AM zhawks
Do the elite schools (ie the ones that start with the highest baseline prestige, unc, duke, illinois, kansas, kentucky, ucla, and the others that can't go below a b- prestige) gain prestige faster then other bcs schools?

8/6/2009 4:10 PM Customer Support
Some schools (e.g. UCLA, Duke, Arizona) have a strong tradition so their prestige gets a boost from that outside of whatever affect the current season has.

8/6/2009 7:30 PM zhawks
How is that floating prestige? Where is the WhatIf in following what a school has done IRL?

8/7/2009 10:36 AM Customer Support
Prestige can still change pretty significantly over time, this is just a small boost that helps keep the traditional powers from dropping too much.

--------

Imagine that? I was right and you were wrong

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and try to have a conversation with you before I write you off as either a liar or an idiot. Where did I even come close to disagreeing with that?

This post could not be converted. To view the original post's thread, click here.

8/22/2008 3:57 PM zhawks
Question about team prestige.

What Is used to determine it? Is it teams 'overall history' or is it just the teams last handful of years? What else constitutes it?

Thanks! Zach

8/22/2008 5:51 PM Customer Support
Thanks for your note. There is not just one thing that determines it. Here are a few things. A school's prestige is always effected by a new coach hiring. The success of a conference as a whole, and not just your own season won/loss record, will show up in a school's prestige, and also whether or not a program has any success in sending players to the NBA.

8/22/2008 8:37 PM zhawks
Ok thanks. Does prestige look beyond a 4 year time line? or is it the complete teams history? Or somewhere in between?

I'm just asking because if its just 4 years, HD would have had Florida be by far the most prestigious team 1 year ago. Whereas they are a high prestige school, but they are by no means the most prestigious over schools such as UCLA, Kentucky, Indiana, Duke, Kansas and UNC

8/24/2008 4:13 PM Customer Support
Are you referring to DI or DII/DIII?

8/26/2008 2:28 PM zhawks
Any division really. Is it different by division?

8/26/2008 2:38 PM Customer Support
Yes, it's vastly different in DI than DII/DIII.

8/26/2008 6:52 PM zhawks
How so? Is it something like last 4 years for d2/3 and the entire spectrum of the teams history for d1?

8/26/2008 8:25 PM Customer Support
Here's the dev. chat on prestige:
http://www.whatifsports.com/devchat/devchat.asp?chatid=56


Hmmmmm. No way! I was right! (Who'da thought?!)

1/14/2008 2:57 AM zhawks
Hi, Just had a curious question about prestige. It seems it works quite a bit different from D1 to D2 and D3. D2 and 3 Teams with an A prestige seem to go down quite a bit after one mediocre season, Even if the past 3 were deep runs into the NT. Just curious why it needs to work so much differently across divisions. If Duke had one mediocre season, like .500 and a first round post season game, they wouldn't drop from their lofty A+ in Real Life. So why should a good D2 or D3 team get penilized more then a D1 team?

Thanks for the time.
Zach

1/15/2008 3:00 PM Customer Support
Hi Zach, that's correct - DI does work differently than both DII and DIII. In DI, there are many more levels of schools whereas in DII and DIII they don't have the national recognition so it's very hard for a school to really differentiate itself over time the way a Duke or UNC can at DI.

1/15/2008 6:12 PM zhawks
Why make it so much easier to lose prestige tho? One .500 season can destroy a teams prestige (a whole letter grade) whereas its much harder to gain that prestige back. I'm specifically speaking of a few schools in Rupp. Fla Tech, Kentucky Wesleyan, Mercyhurst, Post. All these schools that have made multiple long NT runs recently. One Below average (for theses schools) season shouldn't bring them down almost a full letter grade.

On another note, is there a chance that in the 'rankings' tab we could get one just for prestige. I understand its in the rpi page, but that page isn't available throughout the entire season (like during recruiting) When Its really nice to be able to be able to see all the teams new prestige grades.

As always, Thanks.
Zach

1/16/2008 10:57 AM Customer Support
It goes back to the fact that there is not the wide spread in prestige levels in DII or DIII as there are in DI so 1 bad season in DII or DIII is going to have more of an impact - you also don't have the same level of conference prestige as in DI where a bad season in the ACC is off-set by the fact that your program is still going to be on TV 10 times the following season.

I've forwarded your other suggestion along for review. Thanks!

Do you need any more proof?

Okay, so you seem to have support that at the lower levels of D1, it is more difficult to gain a higher prestige. I'd be willing to grant that premise.

It seems almost easier to me, however, to up the prestige in a BCS conference than it does at DII or DIII.

You do realize that proclaiming victory based on CS statements of things that you never stated initially is pretty disingenuous. I never disagreed with any of those things specifically. You weren't "right" abuot any of those things because you never said anything other than it is more difficult to increase prestige at D1 than the other levels - a point that I just granted, at least with respect to the non-BCS schools.

Quote: Originally posted by isack24 on 9/27/2009You do realize that proclaiming victory based on CS statements of things that you never stated initially is pretty disingenuous.  I never disagreed with any of those things specifically.  You weren't "right" abuot any of those things because you never said anything other than it is more difficult to increase prestige at D1 than the other levels - a point that I just granted, at least with respect to the non-BCS schools.

I'll take CS + my 3 times your experience and rest assured that I am right.

Q: You answered a question a few moments ago from barracuda stating that "the new prestige will only impact DI schools" What exactly did you mean by that comment? What about DII and DIII? (gomiami1972 - Hall of Famer - 4:21 PM)

A: How we calculate prestige for DII and DIII will not be changed - the only change at those divisions is that their prestige will be visible. The reason DII and DIII are not being changed is that the possible range of prestige values at those levels is far smaller than what's possible at DI and the current system does a good job of handling that. In addition, all DII/DIII schools have the same baseline prestige so that's also an issue that needed to be handled differently at DI.

And there is the reason that prestiges fluctuate much more at the lower levels then D1.

Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 9/27/2009

Quote: Originally posted by isack24 on 9/27/2009
You do realize that proclaiming victory based on CS statements of things that you never stated initially is pretty disingenuous. I never disagreed with any of those things specifically. You weren't "right" abuot any of those things because you never said anything other than it is more difficult to increase prestige at D1 than the other levels - a point that I just granted, at least with respect to the non-BCS schools.

I'll take CS + my 3 times your experience and rest assured that I am right

Okay.

I hope you realize that anyone else who reads this thread will realize that you're insane - not because you're wrong (you're not for the most part), but because you aren't even coming close to addressing anything that I'm saying.

Look, I absolutely agree that it's more difficult to raise prestige at the lower levels of D1. You've proven that quite well. I commend you for that.

I disagree that it's more difficult in BCS conferences. I made that point with Virginia in Allen, and nothing that CS has said contradicts my point.

You haven't responded to that point yet, but instead continue to proclaim yourself the victor. Yes, you have tremendous experience. I respect you as a great HD coach. Your ability to respond my point seems to be lacking to this point, however.