Recruiting Battle Case Analysis Topic

zhawks
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So there was your problem then the 12 evals at once was a big mistake. (fussy sorry I did only skim yours) It looks like since you both were trying to pull this fellow down the magic number was around 15 evals.
10/22/2009 11:57 AM
john_mills
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Quote: Originally Posted By kmasonbx on 10/22/2009
Not much to weigh in as far as if you should've won the battle, but this is interesting because it seems CVs hold more weight than I ever imagined.
I also noticed that JD did a lot of Evals - which I really don't ultilize as a recruiting tactic do unless I am trying to pull somebody down. In a non-pull down situation, I mainly will use an eval only so I can find more specific information regarding a players particular potential.

Am I missing something? Are evals a useful recruiting tool? More than just HV/CV bombing?

EDIT: SHOULD HAVE READ FURTHER DOWN RE: EVALS. Nevermind this pretty much.

10/22/2009 12:03 PM
ekswimmer
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What about loyalty? I didnt look, but it's possible your loyalty levels came into play if you just moved to that school.
10/22/2009 12:04 PM
john_mills
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Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 10/22/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By fussyd on 10/22/2009

Yes, jdno, you had to continue with the evals in order to pull him down and get him to consider you, so you didn't have much choice but to spend a lot of money on evals.

I think where you went wrong is by dumping the additional 12 on him all at once. Usually 15 is enough to do the trick, and in rare occasions maybe 20. I usually do an initial 10, and if they still aren't considering me I go in 5 eval increments.

zhawks/davey, if it was a pulldown, he had to overspend on evals. This isn't DI.

I find it VERY hard to believe this kid was a pulldown if the lesser prestige school didn't have to do as many evals


JD knows what he is doing. He knows what a pull down is vs. a drop down OR..as you seem to believe...a D2 player.
10/22/2009 12:08 PM
john_mills
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Quote: Originally Posted By ekswimmer on 10/22/2009What about loyalty? I didnt look, but it's possible your loyalty levels came into play if you just moved to that school
both coaches had just moved up after 1 d3 season, so it was a wash...
10/22/2009 12:09 PM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By jdno on 10/22/2009And how is it that evals are that useless in your observations? There has to be some underlying effort from them, certainly not 1:1, but for them to be absolutely, totally useless beyond a certain point seems incredibly misaligned. Why wouldn't this apply to excessive HVs or CVs? It seems like such an arbitrary and subjective statement to say this logic applies only to evals.
They're not useless, but they don't provide the same impact that visits do. Once again, the problems here were: Too many evals, not enough CV's, the promised start and the extra minutes. The combination of those items was enough to overcome the things you had on him.
10/22/2009 12:10 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By john_mills on 10/22/2009
Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 10/22/2009

Quote: Originally Posted By fussyd on 10/22/2009

Yes, jdno, you had to continue with the evals in order to pull him down and get him to consider you, so you didn't have much choice but to spend a lot of money on evals.

I think where you went wrong is by dumping the additional 12 on him all at once. Usually 15 is enough to do the trick, and in rare occasions maybe 20. I usually do an initial 10, and if they still aren't considering me I go in 5 eval increments.

zhawks/davey, if it was a pulldown, he had to overspend on evals. This isn't DI.

I find it VERY hard to believe this kid was a pulldown if the lesser prestige school didn't have to do as many evals.



JD knows what he is doing. He knows what a pull down is vs. a drop down OR..as you seem to believe...a D2 player.
Why not just read the whole thread before commenting ?
10/22/2009 12:10 PM
jdno
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Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009So there was your problem then the 12 evals at once was a big mistake. (fussy sorry I did only skim yours) It looks like since you both were trying to pull this fellow down the magic number was around 15 evals.
Z, I don't think you've been reading any of my responses to you. I just don't see how 11 extra evals instead of a HV or CV would be a dealbreaker here.

This was both of our first seasons at the D2 school, so loyalty should've been the same for each of us.
10/22/2009 12:11 PM
jdno
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Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009So there was your problem then the 12 evals at once was a big mistake. (fussy sorry I did only skim yours) It looks like since you both were trying to pull this fellow down the magic number was around 15 evals.
Also, I don't think we had overlapping recruiting efforts, as I remember being on him for 2, 3, or maybe even 4 cycles before wronoj showed up. And I did all my evals in 2 cycles total, and so did wronoj. I hit him in the 1am and 4am cycles, and wronoj showed up later that day.
10/22/2009 12:14 PM
zhawks
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Quote: Originally Posted By jdno on 10/22/2009
Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009 So there was your problem then the 12 evals at once was a big mistake. (fussy sorry I did only skim yours) It looks like since you both were trying to pull this fellow down the magic number was around 15 evals.
Z, I don't think you've been reading any of my responses to you. I just don't see how 11 extra evals instead of a HV or CV would be a dealbreaker here.

This was both of our first seasons at the D2 school, so loyalty should've been the same for each of us
Apparently you aren't reading mine either? I said you shouldn't have done 12 in 1 cycle. Once you are over 10 you shouldn't be doing any more then 5 or look for a new player because once you have gotten close to 15 you would have to assume that someone else is trying to pull him down also. So fine to make you happy how about this, broken down nice and simple so it can be understood:

You do 5 evals there instead of 12. That saves you about 2.5k if i remember right which you turn into a handful of HVs. You win.
10/22/2009 12:15 PM
jdno
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10/22/2009 12:27 PM
jdno
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10/22/2009 12:30 PM
zhawks
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I view an eval as about 1/10th of the recruiting value of a hv, maybe even less.

Just because a hv is about 3x the cost of a eval doesn't mean a hv is worth 3x the recruiting value of an eval.
10/22/2009 12:33 PM
zhawks
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And before you ask, yes I think that if you had given him 3-4 more hv's you very likely could have won.
10/22/2009 12:36 PM
jdno
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Quote: Originally posted by zhawks on 10/22/2009I view an eval as about 1/10th of the recruiting value of a hv, maybe even less.

Just because a hv is about 3x the cost of a eval doesn't mean a hv is worth 3x the recruiting value of an eval.
I never said this...plus we all know that the cost ratios float with distance, so there's no fixed ratio.

However, in D3 I got a D3 kid to consider me with 5 evals plus a few calls. I also know that 2 HVs plus a few calls can work. I also know that a single CV plus a few calls works.

So when you say an eval is 1/10 the value of a HV, that means I got a kid to consider me with the equivalent of half a HV, which doesn't seem right. In this D3 example, these 5 evals were on the first day of recruiting, not the waning hours where any love you show someone may be good enough to get them to consider you. So this is where I come back to the 5:1 ratio for eval:CV and about a 2:1 for HV:CV.
10/22/2009 12:44 PM
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