so, i decide to play around with this GT thing a bit. my syracuse tark team is #1 in the polls (wire-to-wire) and #1rpi and has just won the powerhouse eastern division of the bigeast conference by a wide margin (3 games, i think).

so our first game in the CT is vs 122rpi seton hall and we are favored by 22 points. We are on a 9game winning streak and have won those 9 games by an average of 20 ppg, so it should be safe to experiment a bit, right?

and this syracuse team is one where a couple of the backups are a bit weak and all the starters are very strong . so we should benefit by playing some of the starters a bit more.



http://whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=5063193



for those whodont feel like looking it up... we were as awful as a team could possibly be. our opponent shot .325 from the floor and the turnovers and rebounds were essentially even (though i have yet to figure out how either of those things is possible) and we lost by 13 points. seriously.

my starters got thier extra minutes, but we shot 28% from the floor and 21% (4 for 19) from behind the 3pt line. and 8 for 17 (47% from the free throw line... seriously) we are not a great ft team, but we average 67% on the year.

i think the most rational explanation is just that this is a coincidence, pure and simple.

but a gauruntee you its got me scratchin my head and im doubtin that ill be doing any GT again anytime soon.

anyways, thanks for the help, fellas. ;-)

Personally I never used GT with FB OD.. Especially with FB press i want my guys to be as fresh as possible. I use it with my other teams though. If you experiment you should try it with a team that doesnt run FB and Presses.

now they tell me...

The only time I use GT is if I promise a start to a recruit but only 10 minutes of PT. That way, I can set him to start and 4 minutes.

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 10/30/2009

so, i decide to play around with this GT thing a bit. my syracuse tark team is #1 in the polls (wire-to-wire) and #1rpi and has just won the powerhouse eastern division of the bigeast conference by a wide margin (3 games, i think).

so our first game in the CT is vs 122rpi seton hall and we are favored by 22 points. We are on a 9game winning streak and have won those 9 games by an average of 20 ppg, so it should be safe to experiment a bit, right?

and this syracuse team is one where a couple of the backups are a bit weak and all the starters are very strong . so we should benefit by playing some of the starters a bit more.



http://whatifsports.com/hd/GameResults/BoxScore.aspx?gid=5063193



for those whodont feel like looking it up... we were as awful as a team could possibly be. our opponent shot .325 from the floor and the turnovers and rebounds were essentially even (though i have yet to figure out how either of those things is possible) and we lost by 13 points. seriously.

my starters got thier extra minutes, but we shot 28% from the floor and 21% (4 for 19) from behind the 3pt line. and 8 for 17 (47% from the free throw line... seriously) we are not a great ft team, but we average 67% on the year.

i think the most rational explanation is just that this is a coincidence, pure and simple.

but a gauruntee you its got me scratchin my head and im doubtin that ill be doing any GT again anytime soon.

anyways, thanks for the help, fellas. ;-)

Here's the thing, ol' D: you didn't have any real problems with fatigue. If your starters had been laboring because of the GT setting, that'd be one thing. But they weren't.

What I see here is that you shot 4-19 from 3p vs. a -5 defense. Not to mention that a less talented team shot 36 ft's to your 17 despite playing that packed-in defense that's theoretically supposed to result in more fouls.

So while I'm open to the notion that the GT setting hurt somewhat, that doesn't appear to be the main culprit.

and that, mister daalty, would be why i said:

"i think the most rational explanation is just that this is a coincidence, pure and simple."

Quote: Originally posted by jetsonsa on 10/31/2009The only time I use GT is if I promise a start to a recruit but only 10 minutes of PT. That way, I can set him to start and 4 minutes.

jetson, you lost me there buddy... i have no friggin clue what you are talking about. is it just me?

not just you, OD-- he seems to have somehow combined the 2 possibilities for setting PT... don't think that option is on my screen.

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 10/31/2009

Quote: Originally posted by jetsonsa on 10/31/2009 The only time I use GT is if I promise a start to a recruit but only 10 minutes of PT. That way, I can set him to start and 4 minutes.

jetson, you lost me there buddy... i have no friggin clue what you are talking about. is it just me?

Nope, I have absolutely no idea what he means either.

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 10/31/2009

Quote: Originally posted by jetsonsa on 10/31/2009 The only time I use GT is if I promise a start to a recruit but only 10 minutes of PT. That way, I can set him to start and 4 minutes.

jetson, you lost me there buddy... i have no friggin clue what you are talking about. is it just me?

Maybe I am misunderstandingt the point of this, but I was just saying that if I have promised a start to a player, the only way to keep that promise and keep his minutes down is to set his minutes to 4-8 rather than use fatigue setting. Even if he is set to 4-8 minutes, if he starts he will play at least 10. If you use fatigue, starters will get 20 or more. Was I missing something?

FF stands for "Fairly Fresh" and GT "Getting Tired"

I can see why someone would get confused. Those aren't exactly common abbreviations.

Thanks kelby. I knew I was missing something but I read all the posts and couldn't figure out the abbreviations. I just guessed it meant "Fatigue Factor" and "Game Time". Now I can read all the posts again in a whole new light.

oldave - i use them both pretty often. with a position where i just have the regular old starter and backup, and the difference is not too big (like a soph vs senior is the limit for FF, frosh vs junior i am possibly playing GT), i like to stick with FF. with a big gap, i play on GT.

i think that is the biggest thing ppl look at for FF vs GT, however, i think it is just one piece of the puzzle. honestly the difference between FF and GT is very small in most of those standard cases, as there is a "sliding scale" for the value of both based on the quality of two players, and in most cases each scale is at a pretty moderate value. often, the stamina of the players and the set make just as big a difference (and tempo, if you change and/or change settings based on your opponents tempo).

the time when i think GT and yes, even tired, make the most sense is for irregular substitution patterns. there are plenty of cases, but here is the most obvious example i can think of. say you have 3 great bigs and a mediocre one. say the 3 are 2 seniors and a junior (so the seniors are a little better), and the stamina is 100 for one senior and 85 for everyone else. now, i'll put my 100 sta guy on getting tired, and the other two on fairly fresh, that way, the 85 sta guy will tend to sub out first, and by the time the 100 sta GT guy needs to come out, hopefully the other starter can come back in.

if the 4th big was craptastic or non existent, i may use tired for the 100 sta big, and getting tired for the other two, or maybe fairly fresh for the other starter. trying to get 3 guys to fill 2 positions does not work well if the 2 starters have the same amount of time to play before they sub out, because they are always coming out together.

this is all in the context of a press defense, which is all i play, where players tend to fatigue fairly quickly, and often will sub out at getting tired or tired even if you have them on fairly fresh.

Wish there was this much interest on this topic last week, when i wanted to have a very similar discussion.

http://www.whatifsports.com/forums/threads.asp?ForumID=30&TopicID=399184&PagePosition=2

I tend to us GT when I have a player that is clearly better than his backup. If I have 2 relatively equal players, I do what somebody said above - go with FF for the starter, and GT for the backup - and they both end up with approx. 20 mins a game.

I am interested in finding out the drop off in player ability if you sub at Tired or Very Tired (check out that link if you have any interest in that discussion or continue it here)

i think you can use GT more often when you are using a normal setting on a FB offense for obvious reasons. i have actually used a slow down FB offense against stronger teams and had great results. not to get off topic.