Press still magic? Topic

Sometimes I am in the top 32 for recruiting classes with only 3 or 4 players. I think I just don't recruit the best fit for my team. And then my teams still suck. I'm not bitter though.
2/24/2010 11:53 PM
Sometimes I am in the top 32 for recruiting classes with only 3 or 4 players. I think I just don't recruit the best fit for my team. And then my teams still suck. I'm not bitter though.
2/24/2010 11:53 PM
"the press is still magic for anyone who can recruit halfway decently"

"I agree with what Rails said months ago. A superior team running the press should have dominate results. An average/below average team trying to run it should get slaughtered, every time."

So, my question is what attributes make a team superior when running the press. Is it speed, athleticism, BH, what? I am trying to transition over and don't know if I am approaching it correctly or not. Is it an IQ thing? ANy help or insight is appreciated.
2/25/2010 5:10 AM
Quote: Originally Posted By mullycj on 2/24/2010
7 out of the 8 Elite DII teams in Naimsmith use FCP and the other uses a press combo.

Too lazy to look at DI and DIII

In Smith, both DII finalists tonight are man2man teams. DI also has a man2man team in the championship
5/8/2010 5:54 AM
I think that 60% of all human coached teams are running press or press combo right now, so it SEEMS like Press is dominating, because only like 15% of people run straight zone and maybe 25% run straight Man.
5/8/2010 9:13 AM
one of the reasons I tried to convince selbe to run ratings adjusted to each world, was with one set of ratings, a substantial test could be done to normalize results - seble would have to do this - could not give it to testers becasue it would give a way too much of the games secrets.

I wanted all ratings normalized to the current d2 system.

as a test, a pair of identical dead avg teams could play each other 1000 times running identical offenses and defenses, then run zone vs man, zone vs fcp, etc until all the combinations were run with statistically identical results w/i a margin for error.

that would be half the project. The next half would be to tweek one team in the 'right' areas, so still identical, but so press would be enhanced. In this case, for 1000 sims, the pressing team should be better. Then the 'tweeked team should run zone and man, in this case the results should be worse.

the team should then be tweeked for zone enhancement, and the same tests should be done.

finally the team should be tweeked for man enhancement, and the same tests should be done.

At the end of the day, my guess is this would take nearly 3-6 months, but we realistically would have a better game.

feel free to rip this idea apart, not meant to be cannon, more as an exercise to stimulate thought

5/8/2010 10:33 AM
heh, man enhancement
5/8/2010 11:02 AM
OR, I'm with you on the first part and it's a great idea.

And I'm probably just missing something very obvious, but what exactly is accomplished by the second part? I suppose just to make sure that the ratings that should be key for a particulary defense really are be the driving force?
5/8/2010 12:20 PM
I refuse to run a straight FCP out of general principle (although I admit, I have been experimenting with a combo D with some of my teams). To me, and this is just one man's opinion, the FCP is way out of whack as far as it's effectiveness.

Even with my best teams under this ID (and my dcy ID), when I face a FCP team that is even close to the same talent level as mine, I go into the game fully expecting to lose.

I'll say again what I said in an earlier post: a FCP team that has bad IQ's, or bad DEF ratings, or is slower than the team they are facing should be getting shredded, consistently. A team that runs the FCP with dominant ratings should be an absolute nightmare to face. It just seems to me, and again this is just my opinion, that average teams running the FCP turn into great teams, just because of the defense they run.

To me, a FCP team that has ATH/SPD, but not the defense to go with it, is just a team of track stars. Sure, they can get to the ball fast, but without the defense to go with it, they should be hacking and fouling damn near every time. WIS' definition of the Def rating is the fundamentals and desire to play defense. Bad defensive rating equals no desire and no fundamentals which should equal tons of lay-ups and/or fouls. Doesn't happen though.......
5/8/2010 1:58 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By jjwarden on 2/25/2010"the press is still magic for anyone who can recruit halfway decently"

"I agree with what Rails said months ago. A superior team running the press should have dominate results. An average/below average team trying to run it should get slaughtered, every time."

So, my question is what attributes make a team superior when running the press. Is it speed, athleticism, BH, what? I am trying to transition over and don't know if I am approaching it correctly or not. Is it an IQ thing? ANy help or insight is appreciated.


Athleticism, speed and stamina are prerequisites. Defense and IQ really enhance your chances to be successful, but you can still succeed without high defense ratings. Rebounding is also highly useful as most pressing teams don't rebound well and rely on turnovers to get the edge. I haven't had a lot of luck with shot blocking in the press, but not all of my teams run the press so I have limited knowledge of what truly makes it effective. I'd defer to furry as he seems to have a very good grasp of it.
5/8/2010 7:53 PM
While not exactly on topic, I found this comment by seble very interesting on the development chat... I would be curious to see what people think re: the zone and why:

Why do you think the Zone defense is generally regarded as the weak link and do you believe it will continue? Did you find anything in the rebuild of the engine that enforced this concept? (mlatsko1 - Hall of Famer - 2:52 PM)

I'm not sure about that. Sometimes perception doesn't always match the truth though. It's possible that the zone's rep wasn't entirely accurate.

5/8/2010 10:20 PM
Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 5/08/2010

I refuse to run a straight FCP out of general principle (although I admit, I have been experimenting with a combo D with some of my teams). To me, and this is just one man's opinion, the FCP is way out of whack as far as it's effectiveness.

Even with my best teams under this ID (and my dcy ID), when I face a FCP team that is even close to the same talent level as mine, I go into the game fully expecting to lose.

I'll say again what I said in an earlier post: a FCP team that has bad IQ's, or bad DEF ratings, or is slower than the team they are facing should be getting shredded, consistently. A team that runs the FCP with dominant ratings should be an absolute nightmare to face. It just seems to me, and again this is just my opinion, that average teams running the FCP turn into great teams, just because of the defense they run.

To me, a FCP team that has ATH/SPD, but not the defense to go with it, is just a team of track stars. Sure, they can get to the ball fast, but without the defense to go with it, they should be hacking and fouling damn near every time. WIS' definition of the Def rating is the fundamentals and desire to play defense. Bad defensive rating equals no desire and no fundamentals which should equal tons of lay-ups and/or fouls. Doesn't happen though.......

wow, i had no idea that someone else also wouldnt run the press out of general principle against its ridiculous effectiveness. its almost like i wrote that post, as ive been ridiculing the track-star based emphasis of HD in general ever since a certain couple coaches became extremely dominant exploiting that a couple years back.

seble said in the dev chat that he thinks press as a primary set should go away, this should be done prior to the release if he truly wants to improve the game
5/8/2010 10:33 PM
To defeat the press:

1) Keep the ball in the hands of your 2 best ball-handlers
2) Slow the game if you're not deep, otherwise run with them by increasing your own tempo.
3) Shoot less, drive more.
4) Pray to the RNG gods.
5/9/2010 12:58 AM
I'm with you vandy and emy. I refuse to run out of principle, the principle that no team ever has played full court press the way it's run here. Lately, I have begun to think it is "magic" because SIM gives undue credit to all those double teams listed in the boxscore. An equally distributed starting five SHOULD not be putting up shots against doubleteams EVER. If they have IQS, they will always find the open man, and in FCP there is always an open man.
5/9/2010 2:10 AM
Quote: Originally posted by sonorastorm on 5/09/2010To defeat the press:

1) Keep the ball in the hands of your 2 best ball-handlers
2) Slow the game if you're not deep, otherwise run with them by increasing your own tempo.
3) Shoot less, drive more.
4) Pray to the RNG gods.
OK ... how do you keep the ball in their hands in this game?

(Maybe set them to take all/most of the shots too).

I am just asking as I see all the time advise like this, but not what the original poster would do within the game to make that happen.
5/9/2010 9:39 AM
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