Quote: Originally posted by trsnoke on 3/21/2010That's kind of what I was thinking.  Starting pitchers average around 2 AB/game.  Even if your pitchers rarely batted, average 1/2 run per game from 1 or 2 pinch hit AB has to be unlikely.  Best of luck to you, though.

Its just simple math that the AL averages 1/2 a run more than the NL.

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if the pitchers that you're running in tandem are not appreciably better or worse than their counterparts in the tandem i see no reason why this doesn't make for a great idea...if you can keep fatigue levels ok on the staff then you could add some runs...some seem to think keeping the staff fresh will be tough but if you simply plan for this and enable your staff with a little better stam/dur then i think it's viable...

using a couple meg dur/stam relievers (90/40 guys) instead of traditional starters (20/70 guys) may help

Quote: Originally posted by zbrent716 on 3/21/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By jtrinsey on 3/21/2010Figure the difference between a pitcher and your bench bats is going to be like .200 OPS points, which would theoretically net 35-40 runs over the course of the season, which, theoretically would be pretty significant. There would be a cost of not maximizing innings out of your best pitchers, but it does seem like an idea worth trying.

I have tried it and, as tec said, all your pitchers will be in the red after a 30 games or so. For example, try to have the same guy pitch in 4 or 5 games in a row and you will see his stamina will start to crash, even if he pitches the same amount of pitches in each game and he recovered to 100% after the first. <SPAN>Either your bench bats are *really* bad or your pitchers are all sluggers who can also pitch. The difference will likely be more than you suggest.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN><SPAN>That said, to the OP, where did the idea that 1 extra PH appearance per game is going to net you an average of 0.5 runs per game? That seems extremely optimistic to me, and I've been running an unconventional rotation with my NL team that has led to 276 PH AB in 150 games so far.</SPAN><SPAN>EDIT - And I see no reason whatsoever why you wouldn't be able to do this due to fatigue, assuming quasi-quality pitchers.</SPAN>

It's probably more like .250 OPS points. I randomly glanced at two pitchers and their OPS happened to be about .500, but I have several who were in the .200s also, although I did have a couple over .500 as well. I doubt your bench bats are going to OPS much more than .700, so figure .250 OPS points.

The way he's doing it might be possible to do it without too much fatigue, but pitchers do not accumulate fatigue just based on pitching. Just appearing in a game has a fatigue bonus and if they appear in several games in a row, they will be in the red even if their pitch count was low. I have experimented with similar things, it just doesn't seem to work out quite as well as expected.

Quote: Originally Posted By jtrinsey on 3/22/2010The way he's doing it might be possible to do it without too much fatigue, but pitchers do not accumulate fatigue just based on pitching. Just appearing in a game has a fatigue bonus and if they appear in several games in a row, they will be in the red even if their pitch count was low. I have experimented with similar things, it just doesn't seem to work out quite as well as expected.

That's not correct.

Pitching fatigue is based entirely on pitches thrown (from my observations). There is no "fatigue bonus" just for appearing in a game.

Perhaps what you are observing is the fact that there is no recovery from fatigue on a day in which a pitcher appears in a game. Consecutive game apperances for a pitcher does not allow for any recovery in between. So a pitcher will be just as fatigued if he pitches two consecutive games of 20 pitches each as he would be for a single game of 40 pitches.

Quote: Originally Posted By moos3p on 3/22/2010

Quote: Originally posted by trsnoke on 3/21/2010 That's kind of what I was thinking. Starting pitchers average around 2 AB/game. Even if your pitchers rarely batted, average 1/2 run per game from 1 or 2 pinch hit AB has to be unlikely. Best of luck to you, though.

Its just simple math that the AL averages 1/2 a run more than the NL

I don't see that in my leagues. I randomly grabbed a few leagues from the World Office and saw AL over NL runs/game anywhere from .00 to .40. I only looked at 6 leagues, though. Obviously, AL has full time DH vs. your hope of 2 add'l PH/game. Honestly, I hope it works for you but I just don't think that you'll see that much of a difference. It's a fun experiment, though, and I will be interested in seeing the results.

Quote: Originally Posted By trsnoke on 3/22/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By moos3p on 3/22/2010

Quote: Originally posted by trsnoke on 3/21/2010
That's kind of what I was thinking. Starting pitchers average around 2 AB/game. Even if your pitchers rarely batted, average 1/2 run per game from 1 or 2 pinch hit AB has to be unlikely. Best of luck to you, though.

Its just simple math that the AL averages 1/2 a run more than the NL.

I don't see that in my leagues. I randomly grabbed a few leagues from the World Office and saw AL over NL runs/game anywhere from .00 to .40. I only looked at 6 leagues, though. Obviously, AL has full time DH vs. your hope of 2 add'l PH/game. Honestly, I hope it works for you but I just don't think that you'll see that much of a difference. It's a fun experiment, though, and I will be interested in seeing the results

I don't see it in my leagues either. I suspect whatever league has a 1/2 run difference is pretty heavily impacted by ballpark choices as well. In any event, the DH 1) is likely a better hitter than your bench guy(s) and 2) is helping account for that 1/2 run (or more likely the 1/4 run) over 3-5 PA. Your strategy only adds a single PH AB per game.

Probably depends on the world.

Coop: .13
MG(92 games): .13
Hamilton(S6): .78

I'm surprised to see that big of a difference.

Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 3/22/2010
Probably depends on the world.

Coop: .13
MG(92 games): .13
Hamilton(S6): .78

I'm surprised to see that big of a difference.

Yea, it definitely depends on the World. Not just the players & management styles, but also on the park distribution.

In Major Leagues (which uses real ballparks and as close to real alignments as possible), Colorado (NL) generally scores (close to) as many runs as any AL team. I think parks, especially the extreme ones, impact the AL/NL run difference (if any) more than the DH vs pitcher.

Just get pitchers with better batting splits

If you take out the tanking and just poorly run teams, it changes. I took several years and only counted teams with a win expectancy of .400 or better. Looks close to .3 rpg in the world I'm in. I read a study for the MLB between 97-08. AL teams gained .4 rpg with the DH.

uh? only .4 rpg to ruin baseball....so not worth it.