To promote or not? Topic

timf
Posts: 185 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 103
Prospect
Mike have you ever considered the fact that not everyone is in it to merely 'make the playoffs'? His question was not, 'should I promote this guy if I want to get to the playoffs'. Read the whole post, he wants to know if he is best served long-term by bringing this guy up right now and the answer is probably no. He wasn't expecting to make the playoffs so clearly he is in a rebuilding mode. The easiest way to screw up a rebuild is to promote guys too early because you want to make the playoffs.

schoogens if all you care about is the playoffs this season I agree with MikeT and Trop, promote the guy. But, if you care more about the longevity of success for your team leave him in AAA for now and call him up after rosters expand if you are in the playoff hunt. Put him back in AAA before spring training starts next season and let him develop his splits and control some more before bringing him up permanently after the all-star break.
5/3/2010 10:51 PM
tecwrg2
Posts: 237 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 2 3 94
Prospect
What a short sighted point-of-view.

Schnoogens apparently has a team that is in a position to make a run at a playoff spot. Why would one intentionally choose to hold back a player that could not only help their chance to not only make the playoffs, but also potentially SUCCEED in the playoffs?

I'd much rather roll the dice on a playoff spot this season (if I feel that I have a reasonable shot at a spot) than hold out for next season, because far too many "bad" things can happen (injury, under-performance, etc.) next season.
5/3/2010 11:03 PM
timf
Posts: 185 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 103
Prospect
It's a matter of opinion really. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you guys because you have your opinions and I have mine. MikeT is the probably the first to say there is more ways than one to win, it's just too bad he doesn't actually believe it.
5/3/2010 11:12 PM
strikeout26
Posts: 6524 (0)
Hall of Famer
129 1 47
Prospect
What's a matter of opinion? By promoting him you put the most competitive team possible on the field. Is that not the point? I see a tanker in the making.
5/4/2010 12:35 AM
schnoogens
Posts: 80 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 1 2 128
Prospect
Quote: Originally posted by strikeout26 on 5/04/2010What's a matter of opinion? By promoting him you put the most competitive team possible on the field. Is that not the point? I see a tanker in the making.

This is not a helpful comment, at all. It's a question of whether the difference between my #4 starter (in a 4-man rotation) is worth replacing with my future star AAA pitcher. It could be that I make the playoffs anyway. I was 10 games above .500 for the entire season until the last 15 games.

I inherited a 48-win team 2 weeks into season 2, when they also finished with 48 wins. They have since been at 64 and 67 wins...there is no tanking on my behalf. I want to win consistently.
5/4/2010 1:28 AM
strikeout26
Posts: 6524 (0)
Hall of Famer
129 1 47
Prospect
I was talking about Timf being the future tanker. No, I went back and looked at your teams history and you are doing the best that you can. Just asking the question proves that you want to be competitive.
5/4/2010 2:02 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
tim, there are hundreds of ways to win. Leaving a player who you believe will help you win so he can develop is not one of them. A) he will develop just fine in the bigs if he plays. B) players not on your BL roster will not help you win BL games.

The only real question is "Are you comfortable starting his arb/FA clock now?" If you want to win now, the answer is "yes". If you are concerned about your budgets in Jan 2011 and December 2011, the answer may be "no".
5/4/2010 2:21 AM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect
Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 5/04/2010tim, there are hundreds of ways to win.  Leaving a player who you believe will help you win so he can develop is not one of them.  A) he will develop just fine in the bigs if he plays.   B) players not on your BL roster will not help you win BL games.The only real question is "Are you comfortable starting his arb/FA clock now?"   If you want to win now, the answer is "yes". If you are concerned about your budgets in Jan 2011 and December 2011, the answer may be "no". 

+1, he will develop just fine at the big league level and it will not stunt any potential future growth he has, as long as he plays...

tim, as i broke it down before though, i simply don't think it's worth it to bring him up now for the marginal improvement you may see at the cost of several million dollars several seasons down the line...

if your goal is to win consistently in the coming year adding that much payroll will make things just a little bit more difficult
5/4/2010 9:34 AM
schnoogens
Posts: 80 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 1 2 128
Prospect
Thanks for all the opinions. I was leaning towards promotion but I could really get into trouble with a few key players all hitting their 1st year of arb in season 8. If Darwin was promoted, he'd be on the same schedule (if I'm not mistaken) as these guys:

Moises Martin

Adam Ducey

Pablo Jose

So the future is bright. I'll see what happens in the next week but hopefully they'll turn it around. I appreciate the helpful insights.
5/4/2010 9:48 AM
hopkinsheel
Posts: 2057 (0)
Hall of Famer
2 19 243
Prospect
Quote: Originally posted by schnoogens on 5/04/2010Thanks for all the opinions. I was leaning towards promotion but I could really get into trouble with a few key players all hitting their 1st year of arb in season 8. If Darwin was promoted, he'd be on the same schedule (if I'm not mistaken) as these guys:
Moises Martin

Adam Ducey

Pablo Jose

So the future is bright. I'll see what happens in the next week but hopefully they'll turn it around. I appreciate the helpful insights.

Ducey is at least season ahead of the other two, possible two seasons depending on when he was promoted...just an fyi.
5/4/2010 10:09 AM
MikeT23
Posts: 58012 (0)
Hall of Famer
87 1 47 1 189
Prospect
schuyler, if one or two games is the difference between post-season action and sitting at home, I think it's worth it. I believe, and this is just my opinion, too many owners get caught up in the future of the team. Lots of things change over the course of 3-6 seasons. You can make adjustments. But, once you **** away a playoff opportunity by being too cautious, you don't get that season back.
5/4/2010 10:36 AM
badercubed
Posts: 20 (0)
All Star
1 48
Prospect
So by timf's calculations, I should have Brian Bates in the minors because he doesn't have lots of pro years? Sounds stupid to me. I want to win now, and in the future and passively tanking just doesn't seem like the way.
5/4/2010 11:04 AM
tecwrg
Posts: 18997 (0)
Hall of Famer
4 1 166 32 129
Prospect
Someone in these forums once told me that I "ruined" Pat Masao by bringing him up at age 21.

He's had a nice career for a "ruined" player.
5/4/2010 11:15 AM
schuyler101
Posts: 257 (0)
Hall of Famer
113 6 21
Prospect
Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 5/04/2010schuyler, if one or two games is the difference between post-season action and sitting at home, I think it's worth it.   I believe, and this is just my opinion, too many owners get caught up in the future of the team.   Lots of things change over the course of 3-6 seasons.  You can make adjustments.  But, once you **** away a playoff opportunity by being too cautious, you don't get that season back.

If you somehow knew right now that 2 wins would be the difference between post season and sitting at home then absolutely yes, sacrificing 8 million dollars a few seasons down the line is worth it

the thing is we don't know, so at that point you have to do a rudimentary cost/benefit analysis, as in "what are the chances that 1 or 2 wins costs me a playoff berth?"

if the answer is something like 10% then i don't think it's worth it, if the answer is around 90% then i think it is...
5/4/2010 12:58 PM
timf
Posts: 185 (0)
Hall of Famer
1 103
Prospect
Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 5/04/2010
tim, there are hundreds of ways to win. Leaving a player who you believe will help you win so he can develop is not one of them. A) he will develop just fine in the bigs if he plays. B) players not on your BL roster will not help you win BL games.

The only real question is "Are you comfortable starting his arb/FA clock now?" If you want to win now, the answer is "yes". If you are concerned about your budgets in Jan 2011 and December 2011, the answer may be "no".



Mike this is exactly what I'm saying. That was the question that was originally asked and since the original poster expressed concerns I suggested a way around the arb clock that would allow him to have Darwin for the important time of the season, which is after roster expansion and if all goes well, the playoffs.
5/4/2010 1:02 PM
◂ Prev 123456 Next ▸
To promote or not? Topic
△Top△Bottom

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.