Quote: Originally posted by kujayhawk on 6/01/2010You sort of helped me out a bit, dalter.

Prior to this season, I wasn't a complete idiot and actually had some perimeter threats. So Orr was set to -1 freshman to junior year. Now I have no perimeter threats so I've set him to 0. He's my best threat to keep defenses honest so I had to crank it up. Again, just seven games, but he's shooting less from three point range as a senior despite going from a -1 to 0 and also facing defenses game in and out that are giving up the outside shot.

As to your statement that I don't have players to properly respond to it. I 110% agree that I don't have the players to *successfully* respond to it. But that's not my issue. Are you saying that simply because I have players that have low perimeter ratings, the game should not adjust accordingly?

I may be dead wrong on this, but if I have my shooting guard set the same for three point frequency, I don't think it should matter if it's a 9 perimeter rating or a 90 when making adjustments. The success rate of the 9 should be brutal -- but if I didn't want him taking shots I could stop that by turning off the distribution and setting him to -2 for threes.

Because I want to try to somewhat keep my opponents honest, I have Orr set to having the 2nd highest (tied with another) distribution on my team and have him set to 0 for threes so that he'll take an open look if it's given to him.

He's being given lots of open looks but the sim should simply ignore that because he's got a bad perimeter rating?

And given his ballhandling and speed, I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be a 30% or better 3 pt shooter at D3. Unless, of course, they changed that in the new engine?

Quote: Originally posted by mjp8 on 6/01/2010With the old engine if I set a SG to 8 and a PF to 12 they might even it out to about 10/10 based on the flow of the game. With the new engine your SG will be 8 and your PF will be 12 no matter what.At least that is the impression I have gotten through a few games.

That hasn't been my impression so far. I've had guards take more shots and light it up from the outside against a 2-3 Zone, for instance, despite not having quite as as high a distro as my stud center.

i would think the new engine might help a poor perimeter team.

if the foulhappiness continues ( i know seble tweaked it, so maybe it wont contnue to be an issue) isnt it possible that a team that pounds it inside against a minus5 will force them into bigtime foultrouble... no?

Quote: Originally Posted By ike1024 on 6/01/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By kujayhawk on 6/01/2010
Are you sure that a low PE rating will lead to lower three point frequency?

I was wondering the same thing after dalter's post. I can't believe that would be true.

Yes, all else being equal, a guy with 90 per will attempt more 3's than a guy with a 9 pe (for example). And that's not new, either.

Quote: Originally posted by antonsirius on 6/01/2010

Quote: Originally posted by mjp8 on 6/01/2010With the old engine if I set a SG to 8 and a PF to 12 they might even it out to about 10/10 based on the flow of the game. With the new engine your SG will be 8 and your PF will be 12 no matter what.At least that is the impression I have gotten through a few games.

That hasn't been my impression so far. I've had guards take more shots and light it up from the outside against a 2-3 Zone, for instance, despite not having quite as as high a distro as my stud center.

True. My back up guard has the 5th highest distro, but shot the 3rd most attempts. My leading shot taker last night was 3rd highest in distro. My Center did foul out in 6 minutes which may have messed things up, but my distro rarely changes lately and my players shooting does.

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Didn't say it was new, but I am shocked that's the case. I can't see any reason why that makes sense. If I want someone to be more apt to shoot 3s, I'll change their 3-pt setting.

It actually makes perfect sense.

Say setting to zero 3pt frequency is taking shots in the flow of the offense that make sense for that player. There are shots that will make sense for a great shooter that would make little sense for a crappy perimeter shooter. Thus the great perimeter shooter, all else being equal, will take more of his shots from 3pt range -- just as he should, and just as he would in real life.

And it's my job to gameplan for that.

"Real life" brain function is a poor argument when arguing whether a sim player should abide by my gameplan. I'm not disagreeing that a SG woul be more likely to takea 3 at -1 than a C, but that's because he's more likely to be on the perimeter.

But there's no reason that if I give the same distro and same three point setting to a 35 per SG as a 70 per SG, that one would take more 3s than the other.

That should be my choice whether I want one shooting a certain rate, not the sim's. If I want the 70 per guy shooting more, I can change his 3-pt setting.

No, if you want the 35 pe jacking more 3p's -- if you want him going against what a 35 pe guy would normally do -- then you can change his setting.

They are completely and totally abiding by your gameplan. The issue is what you think your settings mean vs. what they actually mean.

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/02/2010
The issue is what you think your settings mean vs. what they actually mean.

Clearly that's the issue, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. And no, the your-sim-is-a-more-confident-shooter-because-his-per-is-higher argument doesn't make sense.

Quote: Originally Posted By kujayhawk on 6/01/2010These are the two games that I find most frustrating. Both against the -4 defense:

Game 1
Game 2

And on my roster, this is the player that I really am shocked at how little he shoots the three, he's my starting SG and set to 0 for 3 point frequency:

James Orr


I know I took a bad sample size and just made it worse

My take on this is in game one you had an 18 point lead at halftime and that would lead to less three point shots. In game two it was much closer and Orr took 2 3pt shots.

What is your setting when winning and up by whatever? Maybe your set to not shoot as many threes when up by 10 or whatever.

Lastly, Dalter is spot on when talking about a player looking for a shot within the flow of the offense. If your player has a poor perimeter rating that isn't a shot the offense would want him to take normally. He may take 12-18 ft jumpers but you may not see as many threes. If you want more set him to +1 and see what happens. He should start to force the 3 point shot more.

Quote: Originally posted by ike1024 on 6/01/2010Didn't say it was new, but I am shocked that's the case.  I can't see any reason why that makes sense.  If I want someone to be more apt to shoot 3s, I'll change their 3-pt setting.

If you want the 70 pER guy shooting more - or less - you CAN change his setting. The same with the nine perimeter guy.

Quote: Originally Posted By isack24 on 6/02/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By dalter on 6/02/2010

The issue is what you think your settings mean vs. what they actually mean.

Clearly that's the issue, but that doesn't mean it makes sense. And no, the your-sim-is-a-more-confident-shooter-because-his-per-is-higher argument doesn't make sense

isack, how does it not make sense that, all else being equal, Reggie Miller is going to take more 3pters than Tony Parker?

I think for some reason he wants everyone to just default to shooting the league average and have any differentiation from that be by setting. . . .

Don't know WHY, but thats what it sounds like.