Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 3:14:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 12:12:00 AM (view original):
One thing to point out is your conf matters in this decision. If you have a full human conf, going for a big class is not good, as in the off year where you have 6 FR, you are guaranteed to lose most, if not all, of your conf games. This will kill your prestige. If you have an empty conf, you could very well go 0-0-6-6 structure and make the NT every season, and maintain A+ prestige. 

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree here.  For example, in season 23 of Smith, I managed to take D2 Colorado Springs to the NT Championship game with six freshmen on the roster.  Finished that season 30-5.  Point is, you're certainly not guaranteed to lose all, or even most, of your games with that kind of class setup.  Just have to schedule accordingly to match the experience of your team.

You were in a conf full of competent human coaches?

The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 1:30:00 PM (view original):
The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

By NT time, it's different. Your FR already grew between 70-100points, and IQ in the B/B- range. My point is, with a 6 FR class in an all human conf, you might not get enough wins or high enough RPI to make it to the NT. 

If you have a team in Tark, look at ODAC and the teams with large unbalanced classes (Virginia Wesleyan, Randolph Macon), they go from Elite 8 appearances to barely making the PT next season, because they have a hard time winning games in conference with 6 FR. 

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 1:30:00 PM (view original):
The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

By NT time, it's different. Your FR already grew between 70-100points, and IQ in the B/B- range. My point is, with a 6 FR class in an all human conf, you might not get enough wins or high enough RPI to make it to the NT. 

That's why I said in an earlier post that you schedule accordingly (meaning non-conference, of course).  Rack up a 9-1 or 10-0 mark there, lean on your upperclassmen, and let your freshmen grow up during conference play.  The rest takes care of itself.

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 10:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 1:30:00 PM (view original):
The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

By NT time, it's different. Your FR already grew between 70-100points, and IQ in the B/B- range. My point is, with a 6 FR class in an all human conf, you might not get enough wins or high enough RPI to make it to the NT. 

That's why I said in an earlier post that you schedule accordingly (meaning non-conference, of course).  Rack up a 9-1 or 10-0 mark there, lean on your upperclassmen, and let your freshmen grow up during conference play.  The rest takes care of itself.

But the example you provided doesn't prove anything about teams with super classes being able to make it to the NT every season and maintain the A+ prestige. 

In order for you to make the NT when you have the 6 FR class in a full human conf, you have to schedule perfectly by playing 10 semi-quality teams (so they win games), but these teams must have also scheduled a soft schedule as well. You cannot control how they will schedule.

Your conf mates must also schedule soft (again, not a guarantee and also out of your control) so they boost your SOS during conf games. And all this stuff matters only if you can win 4-5 games in conf (again not a sure thing if your conf is stacked and you are running out 6 FR). Things have to align perfectly for all of this to happen. 

I would be more inclined to believe you if the example you provided comes from a full human conf (as indicated in my post), but it's not. 

I try to keep at least 7 players coming back every year. 3g, 3 bigs and someone who can play the 3. I find in d1, a bigger class helps a lot at a midmajors, as you often one or two good seasons to get started. I think if you plan to stay at a scholol for a while and can get up to a B range prestige though, it's best to be balanced.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 10:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 1:30:00 PM (view original):
The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

By NT time, it's different. Your FR already grew between 70-100points, and IQ in the B/B- range. My point is, with a 6 FR class in an all human conf, you might not get enough wins or high enough RPI to make it to the NT. 

That's why I said in an earlier post that you schedule accordingly (meaning non-conference, of course).  Rack up a 9-1 or 10-0 mark there, lean on your upperclassmen, and let your freshmen grow up during conference play.  The rest takes care of itself.

But the example you provided doesn't prove anything about teams with super classes being able to make it to the NT every season and maintain the A+ prestige. 

In order for you to make the NT when you have the 6 FR class in a full human conf, you have to schedule perfectly by playing 10 semi-quality teams (so they win games), but these teams must have also scheduled a soft schedule as well. You cannot control how they will schedule.

Your conf mates must also schedule soft (again, not a guarantee and also out of your control) so they boost your SOS during conf games. And all this stuff matters only if you can win 4-5 games in conf (again not a sure thing if your conf is stacked and you are running out 6 FR). Things have to align perfectly for all of this to happen. 

I would be more inclined to believe you if the example you provided comes from a full human conf (as indicated in my post), but it's not. 

Tianyi, I don't really care if you believe me or not.  Couldn't possibly care less.  And to answer your question as to whether I have a team in Tark, just go to the Coaches Records.  Click the all-time wins column (it's the default column anyway).  That should answer your question.  Oh, and the guy sitting at number eleven, that's me also.  I think I may have picked up just a bit about this game through my couple seasons of playing, but since you seem to have all the answers, I'll just defer to your knowledge.

dcy0827 is so cool

Why thank you.  That means sooo much coming from a guy who chose to use the ID "smokindavis".  I must say, you've got to be a really cool dude yourself to be able to pull that one off (rolling eyes sarcastically).

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/23/2011 12:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 10:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 1:30:00 PM (view original):
The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

By NT time, it's different. Your FR already grew between 70-100points, and IQ in the B/B- range. My point is, with a 6 FR class in an all human conf, you might not get enough wins or high enough RPI to make it to the NT. 

That's why I said in an earlier post that you schedule accordingly (meaning non-conference, of course).  Rack up a 9-1 or 10-0 mark there, lean on your upperclassmen, and let your freshmen grow up during conference play.  The rest takes care of itself.

But the example you provided doesn't prove anything about teams with super classes being able to make it to the NT every season and maintain the A+ prestige. 

In order for you to make the NT when you have the 6 FR class in a full human conf, you have to schedule perfectly by playing 10 semi-quality teams (so they win games), but these teams must have also scheduled a soft schedule as well. You cannot control how they will schedule.

Your conf mates must also schedule soft (again, not a guarantee and also out of your control) so they boost your SOS during conf games. And all this stuff matters only if you can win 4-5 games in conf (again not a sure thing if your conf is stacked and you are running out 6 FR). Things have to align perfectly for all of this to happen. 

I would be more inclined to believe you if the example you provided comes from a full human conf (as indicated in my post), but it's not. 

Tianyi, I don't really care if you believe me or not.  Couldn't possibly care less.  And to answer your question as to whether I have a team in Tark, just go to the Coaches Records.  Click the all-time wins column (it's the default column anyway).  That should answer your question.  Oh, and the guy sitting at number eleven, that's me also.  I think I may have picked up just a bit about this game through my couple seasons of playing, but since you seem to have all the answers, I'll just defer to your knowledge.

yeah!!

just don't sort it by championships 'cause we're tied on that list!!

Posted by pinkeye on 8/23/2011 1:24:00 AM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/23/2011 12:58:00 AM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 10:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 10:14:00 PM (view original):

Posted by tianyi7886 on 8/22/2011 1:36:00 PM (view original):

Posted by dcy0827 on 8/22/2011 1:30:00 PM (view original):
The conference was about half-human, half-Sim.  The NT was ALL human (and are FAR better teams than the average conference team), so your point is? 

By NT time, it's different. Your FR already grew between 70-100points, and IQ in the B/B- range. My point is, with a 6 FR class in an all human conf, you might not get enough wins or high enough RPI to make it to the NT. 

That's why I said in an earlier post that you schedule accordingly (meaning non-conference, of course).  Rack up a 9-1 or 10-0 mark there, lean on your upperclassmen, and let your freshmen grow up during conference play.  The rest takes care of itself.

But the example you provided doesn't prove anything about teams with super classes being able to make it to the NT every season and maintain the A+ prestige. 

In order for you to make the NT when you have the 6 FR class in a full human conf, you have to schedule perfectly by playing 10 semi-quality teams (so they win games), but these teams must have also scheduled a soft schedule as well. You cannot control how they will schedule.

Your conf mates must also schedule soft (again, not a guarantee and also out of your control) so they boost your SOS during conf games. And all this stuff matters only if you can win 4-5 games in conf (again not a sure thing if your conf is stacked and you are running out 6 FR). Things have to align perfectly for all of this to happen. 

I would be more inclined to believe you if the example you provided comes from a full human conf (as indicated in my post), but it's not. 

Tianyi, I don't really care if you believe me or not.  Couldn't possibly care less.  And to answer your question as to whether I have a team in Tark, just go to the Coaches Records.  Click the all-time wins column (it's the default column anyway).  That should answer your question.  Oh, and the guy sitting at number eleven, that's me also.  I think I may have picked up just a bit about this game through my couple seasons of playing, but since you seem to have all the answers, I'll just defer to your knowledge.

yeah!!

just don't sort it by championships 'cause we're tied on that list!!

Congratulations!!

dcy, the season you cited was a great accomplishment, but the fact that you did that doesn't mean that (a) most people could do that or (b) it's a good strategy (not saying it's a bad strategy, either, only the fact that it worked incredibly well in Season 24 doesn't really demonstrate anything).

It's kind of like kmason saying, "Look, I can point to one mid-major team that went far in the NT, so that means recruit generation works and all mid-majors can compete like they used to!" The fact is, the overwhelming majority of coaches aren't going to be able to do anything close to that with six frosh.

We are gonna play that game now, dcy?

You:
3508-1205 (0.744)
4NC
So 1 NC every 1250 games.

Me:
1212-269 (0.818)
3NC
1 NC every 500 games

If you couldn't possibly care less about what I think, why are you ******** and whining here? I gave the coach who started this thread some pretty simple and sound advice: it's easier to maintain prestige during your "off years" if you run unbalanced classes in a simai conf, and harder to do so in an all human conf. Instead you pulled up a single performance from 20+ seasons ago in a not all human conf? How is that even tangential to what I wrote? If anything, doesn't it strengthen my position, that the path to NT for during the "off season" is easier in a conf not filled with human coaches?

Yeah, but don't worry about the soundness of my advice, just keep pulling the you got 11th most wins in tark blah blah blah bs, even though you win % is lower and it took you an extra 3500 games to get a more NC than me. 

I think there is no one answer to this.  It depends on a lot of stuff like

- your conference - the level of competitiveness

- your recruiting style - some folks are really good at getting stars, some are really good at getting depth - know yourself and you will succeed

- probably depends on your division altho I have played only DI for a while

- geography - what will work for you may be affected by whether your school is isolated or in the midst of a target rich (and competitive) environment

probably some other factors