exp era < 4.0
value < -10%

1886 Bob Caruthers	452.0	-$3,942,593	-$8,723	-26%
1915 Babe Ruth	234.0	-$1,591,426	-$6,801	-22%
1890 Amos Rusie	679.0	-$4,725,140	-$6,959	-22%
1959 Camilo Pascual	252.0	-$1,509,949	-$5,992	-20%
1889 Adonis Terry	386.0	-$2,284,391	-$5,918	-20%
1963 Gary Peters	243.0	-$1,498,957	-$6,169	-20%
2005 Juan Rincon	77.0	-$447,010	-$5,805	-19%
1895 Pink Hawley	546.0	-$2,968,840	-$5,437	-19%
1925 Pete Donohue	319.0	-$1,728,846	-$5,420	-19%
1890 Scott Stratton	529.0	-$3,277,582	-$6,196	-19%
1948 Bob Lemon	307.0	-$1,673,640	-$5,452	-18%
2004 Francisco Cordero	72.0	-$376,505	-$5,229	-18%
1888 Elmer Smith	422.0	-$2,255,761	-$5,345	-18%
1892 Scott Stratton	375.0	-$1,939,118	-$5,171	-17%
2006 Takashi Saito	79.0	-$604,455	-$7,651	-17%
1967 Ron Taylor	73.0	-$356,720	-$4,887	-17%
2010 Heath Bell	70.0	-$351,329	-$5,019	-17%
2008 Brad Lidge	69.3	-$342,627	-$4,942	-16%
2003 Mark Prior	212.0	-$968,465	-$4,568	-16%
1996 Roberto Hernandez	85.0	-$457,464	-$5,382	-16%
1998 Kevin Brown	257.0	-$1,271,316	-$4,947	-16%
1939 Bucky Walters	336.0	-$1,568,050	-$4,667	-15%
2009 Danny Haren	229.3	-$1,020,933	-$4,452	-15%
2008 Arthur Rhodes	36.0	-$163,978	-$4,555	-15%
2011 David Robertson	66.7	-$381,717	-$5,726	-15%
1989 Gregg Olson	85.0	-$433,462	-$5,100	-15%
2004 Francisco Rodriguez	84.0	-$535,418	-$6,374	-15%
2004 B.J. Ryan	87.0	-$428,937	-$4,930	-14%
2010 John Axford	58.0	-$268,335	-$4,626	-14%
1901 Nixey Callahan	257.0	-$1,069,860	-$4,163	-14%
2008 Jonathan Broxton	69.0	-$295,692	-$4,285	-14%
2002 Robb Nen	74.0	-$311,786	-$4,213	-14%
1915 Eddie Plank	283.0	-$1,391,131	-$4,916	-14%
1917 Babe Ruth	348.0	-$1,531,309	-$4,400	-14%
2011 Sean Marshall	75.7	-$318,946	-$4,215	-14%
1905 Frank Smith	311.0	-$1,269,114	-$4,081	-13%
1969 Bob Gibson	314.0	-$1,256,095	-$4,000	-13%
1985 Scott Garrelts	106.0	-$426,326	-$4,022	-13%
2008 Takashi Saito	47.0	-$189,877	-$4,040	-13%
1996 Robb Nen	83.0	-$365,737	-$4,406	-13%
2008 Ramon Ramirez	71.7	-$275,216	-$3,840	-13%
2000 Bob Wickman	73.0	-$276,692	-$3,790	-13%
1996 Mariano Rivera	108.0	-$613,286	-$5,679	-13%
2008 Arthur Rhodes	36.0	-$140,157	-$3,893	-13%
2008 Tim Lincecum	227.0	-$847,055	-$3,732	-13%
2000 Randy Johnson	249.0	-$920,840	-$3,698	-13%
2007 Jake Peavy	221.0	-$940,004	-$4,253	-13%
2001 Roy Halladay	106.0	-$394,915	-$3,726	-12%
1983 Kent Tekulve	99.0	-$376,535	-$3,803	-12%
1999 Pedro Martinez	214.0	-$1,121,934	-$5,243	-12%
2010 Carlos Marmol	77.7	-$376,152	-$4,843	-12%
1958 George Witt	112.0	-$404,270	-$3,610	-12%
1890 Pat Luby	319.0	-$1,165,785	-$3,654	-12%
1972 Terry Forster	106.0	-$397,709	-$3,752	-12%
1952 Bob Rush	264.0	-$950,822	-$3,602	-12%
1990 Larry Andersen	96.0	-$367,464	-$3,828	-12%
2009 Kiko Calero	60.0	-$271,148	-$4,519	-12%
1885 Charlie Ferguson	597.0	-$2,277,278	-$3,815	-12%
1998 Mike Williams	51.0	-$214,307	-$4,202	-12%
1901 Jesse Tannehill	295.0	-$1,054,595	-$3,575	-12%
1916 Babe Ruth	341.0	-$1,444,867	-$4,237	-12%
1994 Bobby Ayala	82.0	-$324,243	-$3,954	-12%
1962 Bob Gibson	234.0	-$836,017	-$3,573	-12%
1915 Reb Russell	242.0	-$820,661	-$3,391	-12%
1996 Mike Trombley	69.0	-$240,720	-$3,489	-12%
1902 Jesse Tannehill	270.0	-$1,058,149	-$3,919	-12%
2011 Steve Cishek	54.7	-$192,287	-$3,517	-12%
1939 Ted Lyons	182.0	-$661,895	-$3,637	-12%
1891 Frank Killen	436.0	-$1,593,239	-$3,654	-12%
1981 Nolan Ryan	220.0	-$911,555	-$4,143	-12%
1983 Carlos Diaz	84.0	-$310,501	-$3,696	-12%
1928 Burleigh Grimes	353.0	-$1,179,528	-$3,341	-12%
2005 Jake Peavy	203.0	-$707,987	-$3,488	-11%
1990 Larry Andersen	96.0	-$339,942	-$3,541	-11%
1998 Greg Maddux	251.0	-$987,347	-$3,934	-11%
1902 Rube Waddell	330.0	-$1,172,050	-$3,552	-11%
1968 Eddie Watt	84.0	-$276,575	-$3,293	-11%
1886 Toad Ramsey	702.0	-$2,646,401	-$3,770	-11%
2011 Al Alburquerque	43.3	-$199,644	-$4,607	-11%
1998 Jason Christiansen	65.0	-$221,589	-$3,409	-11%
1944 Dizzy Trout	371.0	-$1,202,256	-$3,241	-11%
2000 Jeff Nelson	71.0	-$266,561	-$3,754	-11%
1945 Nels Potter	274.0	-$883,293	-$3,224	-11%
2002 Chris Hammond	77.0	-$311,797	-$4,049	-11%
1975 Rich Gossage	143.0	-$500,928	-$3,503	-11%
1927 Red Lucas	254.0	-$807,068	-$3,177	-11%
1895 Sadie McMahon	153.0	-$577,947	-$3,777	-11%
2005 Scott Eyre	69.0	-$253,570	-$3,675	-11%
2010 Jonny Venters	83.0	-$282,591	-$3,405	-11%
1919 Dutch Ruether	281.0	-$927,811	-$3,302	-11%
1986 Kent Tekulve	111.0	-$350,182	-$3,155	-11%
2011 Koji Uehara	65.0	-$275,061	-$4,232	-11%
2011 Koji Uehara	65.0	-$275,061	-$4,232	-11%
1996 John Smoltz	254.0	-$896,721	-$3,530	-11%
1891 John Ewing	331.0	-$1,024,815	-$3,096	-11%
2009 Tim Lincecum	225.3	-$821,414	-$3,645	-11%
1988 Mark Davis	99.0	-$335,392	-$3,388	-11%
1904 Al Orth	148.0	-$479,263	-$3,238	-11%
1947 Spud Chandler	135.0	-$462,507	-$3,426	-11%
1993 Gregg Olson	45.0	-$143,959	-$3,199	-11%
1998 Tom Gordon	80.0	-$342,594	-$4,282	-11%
1977 Len Barker	48.0	-$144,005	-$3,000	-11%
1886 Dave Foutz	588.0	-$1,915,481	-$3,258	-10%
1920 Burleigh Grimes	320.0	-$1,013,243	-$3,166	-10%
2002 Curt Schilling	260.0	-$821,155	-$3,158	-10%
1911 Joe Wood	292.0	-$1,017,019	-$3,483	-10%
2004 Matt Miller	56.0	-$180,484	-$3,223	-10%
1980 Dave Smith	103.0	-$301,998	-$2,932	-10%
2002 Joey Eischen	54.0	-$171,845	-$3,182	-10%
1970 Tom Seaver	291.0	-$899,179	-$3,090	-10%
1937 Van Mungo	171.0	-$525,128	-$3,071	-10%
2011 Clayton Kershaw	233.3	-$790,353	-$3,387	-10%
1981 Fernando Valenzuela	284.0	-$886,786	-$3,122	-10%
1998 John Smoltz	168.0	-$490,748	-$2,921	-10%
1955 Bob Miller	95.0	-$277,897	-$2,925	-10%
2009 Javier Vazquez	219.3	-$662,726	-$3,022	-10%

Thanks!

I see many of the names with 200+ innings are good hitting pitchers -- I guess hitting is not taken into account?  In other words, assuming you're not drafting these pitchers for a DH league, they're not as bad a deal as your list makes them out to be?

Good hitting and high K/9+ is what I see at a quick glance...

Posted by crazystengel on 2/24/2012 2:23:00 PM (view original):
Exactly!  Same reason I never replace a flat tire on my car -- because sooner or later ANOTHER tire is going to go flat.  There is NO ESCAPE from that reality, so I just MAN UP and deal with riding on flat tires!

Yess agree will always be someone new was BIG 1886 Bob Caruthers before Joss
& after Joss maybe Walsh the game just always about the numbers & who can
find the best deal for there money the name dont mean so much of any thing

"you are right people would move down the line"...  thanks to Zub for his usuall and gracious sharing of some real what you need to know to win stats but this quote really settles the matter.  This game has and always will be about finding VALUE and regardlesss of what changes are made this will continue.  I have been here since 2002 and WIS baseball has never been better.  There are more way to win and a myriad of strategies to do so.  If you are a Sammy Sosa type of fan I am sorry he doesnt produce for the money you spend.  I am sorry deadball players you have never heard of can perform at a high level.  But the reality is they were great players in their day and could play big league ball if they were born today. This  is not basketball or football.  Raw athleticism isnt as important as the inate abilty to hit, run and throw.  If it were Carl Crawford would be the greatest player extant and nobody would be bemoning the $ the Red Sox paid him for a WAR rating that could be replaced by any AAA player.  And Jim Thorpe instead of being a blip in the baseball history books would be making Ty Cobb and the Babe cower in the corner at his greatness.   As the father of a serious player and long time student of the history of the greatest game I say without reservation that an in his prime Joe Jackson could step into the box today and hit line drives against modern pitching. The post saying Joss couldnt get one by a modern hitter has obvioulsy never seen Moyer pitch or perhaps a better example Randy Jones who was a highly successful pitcher in the 70's but basically a deadball clone.  You can win without Joss and you can easily beat him..  now you cant beat him with a group of steroid bulked up power guys but even the most basic study of the stats would convince anyone of that.

One of the best things the game (SIM) has done for me is that curiosity caused me to google players and learn a bit about them. Some really fascinating stories. I do think the game (RL) is better now in many ways, but I am equally confident that the greats would have been great in any era. Some of the old timers' bios are almost unbelievable. Mordecai Brown and Ernie Lombardy top my list, but there is plenty of competition.

Moe Berg and Rube Waddell...both are priceless.

thanks pftattkatt, I just had a fun time looking up some players on my team.  It was really interesting what I found. Jay Johnstone was a big time prankster.