bogus hiring logic Topic

dont get caught up in the simmy "backwards" label - you should take a DI job that is a step up from where you are.  BCS jobs - at least historically - took a while to get.  Cant say that I am current on jobs process because it is a while since I last moved
3/3/2012 1:59 PM
Duke, I have no doubt that you are a good coach...but your resume is absolutely not even remotely Big Six-worthy at this point.  And the fact that you are complaining about it is beyond laughable.  In any event, if you make the NT next year, then you will most likely be qualified (even though I personally still don't think you should be).
3/3/2012 1:59 PM
Yeah, the self-righteousness seems ridiculous.  You won two NTs with skunk's players and since then have done virtually nothing at JMU and are calling it some sort of great accomplishment.
3/3/2012 2:04 PM
I personally think that if the choice is between a decent human coach and a SIM, the human coach should win.

So, I say they should greatly decrease the requirements to put in a application.

I have no issue getting beat by a better resume ... but these big 6 schools with B+ prestiges that keep going downhill SIM until they get to C or C- because they won't consider low level Div-1 coaches is ridiculous.  If someone better applies, great ... but let human coaches apply.
3/3/2012 5:18 PM
I've been in the same boat the last two seasons
3/3/2012 5:59 PM
Posted by hughesjr on 3/3/2012 5:18:00 PM (view original):
I personally think that if the choice is between a decent human coach and a SIM, the human coach should win.

So, I say they should greatly decrease the requirements to put in a application.

I have no issue getting beat by a better resume ... but these big 6 schools with B+ prestiges that keep going downhill SIM until they get to C or C- because they won't consider low level Div-1 coaches is ridiculous.  If someone better applies, great ... but let human coaches apply.
And I respectfully disagree, as I feel that a SIM is better than a human coach without a truly qualified resume (which this case is far from it)... but when we're fundamentally different on this issue, there will be no convincing the other that our side is correct :).
3/3/2012 6:01 PM
Posted by seabreeze on 3/3/2012 1:10:00 PM (view original):
By the way, the A10 and Horizon conferences in Knight each have at least eight human coaches. I would suggest getting some additional D1 experience in a conference like that prior to taking a Big 6 team.
+1

There's definitely something to be said for this. I recruited my cousin to play HD awhile back and he took the speed route to D1 and landed a Big 6 job before he was truly ready/experienced enough at the D1 level. Once there, he was in way over his head, and ended up quitting HD altogether over the frustration at his inability to compete.
3/3/2012 7:24 PM
I have a lot more to say, but quickly. Why is going fun a c+ to a c+ such a ridiculous ? quite honestly, id prefer to stay at jmu if I had human competition. The game is rigged for human heavy conferences. I have a connection tojmu which us why I an there. I have competed and won sine lousy sine recruiting battles against big 6 teams but I can't compete on money.
Besides, my jmu team will be better, probably much better than VA tech next year. The only reason to leave is to her the recruiting cash.
3/3/2012 8:36 PM
Posted by dukenilnil on 3/3/2012 8:36:00 PM (view original):
I have a lot more to say, but quickly. Why is going fun a c+ to a c+ such a ridiculous ? quite honestly, id prefer to stay at jmu if I had human competition. The game is rigged for human heavy conferences. I have a connection tojmu which us why I an there. I have competed and won sine lousy sine recruiting battles against big 6 teams but I can't compete on money.
Besides, my jmu team will be better, probably much better than VA tech next year. The only reason to leave is to her the recruiting cash.

Confusing post.

3/3/2012 9:10 PM
Yeah, bad autocorrect on phone. Will correct when I get on a computer
3/3/2012 9:15 PM
Posted by hughesjr on 3/3/2012 5:18:00 PM (view original):
I personally think that if the choice is between a decent human coach and a SIM, the human coach should win.

So, I say they should greatly decrease the requirements to put in a application.

I have no issue getting beat by a better resume ... but these big 6 schools with B+ prestiges that keep going downhill SIM until they get to C or C- because they won't consider low level Div-1 coaches is ridiculous.  If someone better applies, great ... but let human coaches apply.
The Big 6 schools are 90% filled. I don't think the current logic needs to be addressed.
3/3/2012 9:46 PM
Despite your ties to JMU, you should leave and take the best available job.  Or if you think you can make the NT again stay another year, make it past the first round and you might have something.  I would not even worry about simmy's opinion. 

Realistically, you will not beat out other coaches for any BCS job that opens due to your lack of NT success; you need to go deeper to have a chance. 

Making it from a sim filled conference is not that impressive as most would do the same since the sims are largely signing DII talent against you. Find a conference with some warm bodies.  Prove you can have the same success and you will get a Big 6 job.  If you leave JMU, you probably could move again quickly especially if you continue to make the NT.
3/3/2012 11:44 PM
Come to the Atlantic 10. We have 9 human coaches and are trying to fill it up this year. We sent two teams to the NT this year, and I think we have a good shot to do even better this year. It's a great group of coaches too! We'd love to have you (or any other coach that reads this). This is the Knight World.
3/4/2012 12:37 AM (edited)
Ok. A lot to say here.  
 
1) First, I am not annoyed that I don’t qualify for A-/B+ Big six jobs, obviously that is a big leap. More that the closer prestige programs aren’t anything but a “not qualified”
 
2) Despite the snap judgments by some, there is nothing ridiculous about being frustrated that the computer seems to think going from one C+ job (JMU) to another (C+) is a “not qualified.” I could see longshot, but not not qualified. Prestige, in theory, evaluates the current strength of the program. According to that, we are on equal footing. Further, a baseline D- school that is at C+ versus a baseline B school (Va Tech) at C+ shows 2 programs moving in the different directions. Further, if you take the time to look at the rosters, the JMU team will be better next year (likely significantly) and most likely the next 2 years as currently filled. Thus on that level, the JMU job is better.   So why do I want the Va Tech job, for instance? Only because of the built in recruiting advantages of being in a human filled conference that is stable (the coaches who are there are likely to stay or retire). Recruiting at JMU (in ACC country, mind you) means I have to be a smarter recruiter than if I was at Va Tech because of the money differences. We are likely to see the same or nearly the same recruits because we have the same prestige, but Va Tech will have significantly more cash per recruit than JMU. With the cash advantage, I can make Va Tech better in 3-4 years than I could JMU, but otherwise, JMU is currently better positioned.
 
3) The job hiring process was supposed to look at a longer period to show consistent good performance. D1, D2, or D3, winning a championship is a big deal and should count for something.  In the recent history, I won 2 at D3. The job hiring engine seriously undervalues championships. While a championship at D3 or D2 shouldn’t be worth as much in hiring as one at D1, winning a championship at any level should carry significant weight in hiring (as should Final Fours) because it shows championship pedigree.
 
4) That brings me to the next point, the bashing/personal attack that I was somehow gifted the championships is irrelevant (and to a large degree, inaccurate).   I seriously doubt the hiring formula credits or discredits championships based on inherited rosters. Instead, it’s a mathematical formula based on past records, tournament success, rpi, longevity.   Whether or not you think I “earned” the championships, it’s ridiculous that so little weight is apparently put on lower level success. Similarly, whether or not I am “beating up on SIMS” is not something the hiring logic would consider. Plus, getting a 40s RPI in a simmy conference is no easy task.  I would argue that wining a D3 championship is significantly harder than winning a game or 2 at D1 in the tournament. Winning 1 game requires only some lucky breaks. Apparently, though, the programmers think making the second round of the D1 tourney a single time is more impressive than lower level championships.
 
5) The thrust of the problem is that the job hiring logic places significant, almost dogmatic emphasis on one lucky or loaded run in the NT. Winning 1 NT game, surrounded by a history of mediocrity is more valuable than significant success at lower levels or sustained success (and yes, making the NT which qualifies as “exceeding expectations” in performance review is success).
 
6) Let’s evaluate some resumes of other Big 6 schools to see how I am “not even remotely Big 6 worthy”. For comparison sake, I looked at 3 Big 6 conferences and only coaches who came from a lower-level D1 versus transferred from other Big 6 and will list prior seasons to getting Big 6 job. Here are some of the amazing success stories that so far outshine my resume that I am “self-rightous” and have no right to complain:
  • (a) RPI 30, NT 2nd round; (b) RPI 116; (c) RPI 100; (d) RPI 118; (e) RPI 90; (f) RPI 285; (g) RPI 306, before that DII (that is Stinenavy who at Va Tech in Iba);
  • (a) RPI 36, NT 1std round; (b) RPI 56, NT 1st round; (c) RPI 169; (d) RPI 184; (e) RPI 87, NT 1st round; (f) RPI 86, PIT 1st round; before  that DII 
  • (a) RPI 37, NT 3nd round; (b) RPI 286; (c) RPI 210; before that DII; A grand total of 4 NT wins at ANY LEVEL.
  • (a) RPI 32, NT 1st round; (b) RPI 69, PIT 2nd round; (c) RPI 59, PIT 3rd round; (d) RPI 75, PIT 1st round; (e) RPI 45, NT 1st round; (f) RPI 133; (g) RPI 64, PIT 2nd round; (h) RPI 70, PIT 2nd round
  • (a) RPI 28; NT 2nd round; (b) RPI 53, PIT 2nd round;  (c) RPI 171; (d) RPI 231; (e) RPI 87, PIT 1st round; RPI 89; (f) PIT 1st round; (g) RPI 104, NT 1st round; (h) RPI 219
  • (a) RPI 76; PIT 1st round; (b) RPI 76, NT 1st round; (c) RPI 81, PIT 2nd round; (d) RPI 106, (e) RPI 117, NT 1s round; (f) RPI 100; (g) RPI 78, PIT 1st round; (h) RPI 129, NT 1st round; A grand total of ZERO WINS in the NT at ANY LEVEL
  • (a) RPI 50, NT 1st round; (b) RPI 68; PIT 1st round; (c) RPI 51, NT 1st round; (d) RPI 48, NT 1st round; (e) RPI 73, PIT 1st round; (f) RPI 260; (g) RPI 45, NT 1st round; (h) RPI 83, PIT 1st round
  • (a) RPI 24, NT 2nd round; (b) RPI 29, NT 1st round; (c) RPI 121; (d) RPI 109; (e) RPI 91, PIT 1st round; (f) RPI 138; (g) RPI 169; (h) RPI 152
  • (a) RPI 92, NT 1st round; (b) RPI 52, NT 1st round; (c) RPI 61, PIT 1st round;
 
Yeah, my resume sucks compared to these regular Woodens. All most have is one lucky year where they either loaded up to win a NT game or caught some breaks. Nearly all of those coaches had fewer than 5 NT wins total, across all levels before getting the Big 6 job. Clearly the hiring logic values one NT win or one lucky run over any kind of sustained success.
 
7) Oh, and while not relevant to my Big 6 app, to dispel the notion that Uglyskunk made me and that otherwise I suck, here are the last 10 years on my other teams that I built from scratch taking over bad SIM teams: CRUM – RPI 30; RPI 3; RPI 2; RPI 14; RPI 16; RPI 12; RPI 3; ; RPI 12; RPI 16; RPI 16. Nation Tourney record 24-13 (1 title game, 2 final four, 3 Elite 8, 6 Sweet sixteens);  PHELAN – RPI 28; RPI 2; RPI 5; RPI 4; RPI 11; RPI 6; RPI  35; RPI 4; RPI 2; RPI 24. National Tourney Record – 29-13 (2 final fours; 5 elite 8s; 10 sweet sixteens).
 
Overall winning percentage of 75% across all worlds.
3/5/2012 11:37 AM
I'm just going to respond to your #2. You are looking to jump from JMU to VA Tech? That's a little bit of a reach considering VA Tech is in ACC, their conf prestige/recruiting cash is huge. There is a reason why for most worlds, it's much easier to get into a SEC, B baseline/C+ prestige, than to get into a similar program in the ACC.

Another point is that not all C+ are equal. For all we know, VA tech is at the higher end of C+ while you are at the lower end, which means you want to move to a much higher baseline AND a higher current prestige. This is not possible in this engine and should not be possible.

These 2 reasons combined are why for D1, among 3 teams with the same baseline and the same current  prestige, you could be step backward for one, longshot for the 2nd, and not qualified for the 3rd. I see nothing wrong with this. 
3/5/2012 11:46 AM (edited)
◂ Prev 12345 Next ▸
bogus hiring logic Topic

Search Criteria

Terms of Use Customer Support Privacy Statement

© 1999-2026 WhatIfSports.com, Inc. All rights reserved. WhatIfSports is a trademark of WhatIfSports.com, Inc. SimLeague, SimMatchup and iSimNow are trademarks or registered trademarks of Electronic Arts, Inc. Used under license. The names of actual companies and products mentioned herein may be the trademarks of their respective owners.