I would.   Most veteran owners believe you get to 20m training as quickly as possible and you stay there.    It's the one budget item you don't skimp.

My bad. When you said "all", I thought you meant "all". I wouldn't want someone to think that's all that goes into development of a prospect, which is what you said. And you're correct that training doesn't matter, as long as you don't care about the pitcher's arm strength, stamina, etc. (hint: that's sarcasm). The importance of training is probably the one thing in all of HBD on which you're most likely to find a consensus.

And no, addressing his question, you are not dead on. Or do you not realize that Pitching Coaches affect development? Playing time with a Rookie League PC with a rating of 45 would not develop a superstar closer.

Mike: Yes I have been at 20 since I was able. Just didn't realize it aided in development. Great to know.


Josh he asked "...I would have figured make him the closer and have him nail that role..." 

As if to suggest role had any bearing.

That is what my reply was aimed at.

Maybe my wording wasn't the best.

Wanted to make clear to a fairly new owner that coaching and training also matter in developing that future superstar. He's in HiA with a 67-IQ coach, but if he were promoted to AA (63 PC) it would actually slow his development. Personally, I'd put him in AAA with the 73 coach for at least the season that's about to start.

Posted by joshkvt on 6/22/2012 3:31:00 PM (view original):
Wanted to make clear to a fairly new owner that coaching and training also matter in developing that future superstar. He's in HiA with a 67-IQ coach, but if he were promoted to AA (63 PC) it would actually slow his development. Personally, I'd put him in AAA with the 73 coach for at least the season that's about to start.

So would you send an 18 yo pitcher straight to AAA because that is where the best PC is?

If I didn't have better prospects at AAA who needed the IP there, yes. I don't care what his ERA and WHIP are, just how much he develops. Unless you believe in the Promotion Bump Fairy, there's no reason not to put your top position-player prospects with the best HC and your pest pitching prospects with the best PC, given that there are openings for maximum playing time.

I've read that Bigfoot mated with the Loch Ness Monster, and that Hitler is still alive. Just because someone has posted that it's bad to have a player at too high a level does not make it so. I've never seen anything in a Dev Chat or an example of a top prospect retiring because he's tired of not getting promoted from AAA. That makes no sense. Why would they program it for a player to be less satisfied being in AAA for a third season than being in Hi-A, just because he got to enjoy promotions from Rookie after one season and Low-A after a second? I put my first-round pick in Rickey in AAA right after the draft last season at age 18. I'll bet you a team — in fact, I'll give you 2 teams-to-1 team odds — that he doesn't retire before he gets to the majors.

The 40-man has nothing to do with it. I could put a player in any level on the 40 and use him to replace an injured major leaguer on the playoff roster. Doesn't matter whether he's in Rookie ball for a fifth season or AAA.

There are some accepted facts in play: better coaching, playing time and training affect development.
I know that some believe it's better to steadily promote players, believe that players grow more when they are putting up good stats, and believe that there is a promotion bump. 

Players on the 40 won't retire until their 40s.

I have noticed players stagnating from being at a level too long.    If "best coaches" is the best option, pretty much everyone would start their prospects at AAA.  Pretty much no one does that.    I don't think, in your less than mediocre 21 seasons, that you've stumbled upon something that the rest of us have missed for the last 5 years.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that a player's success (or lack of) also impacts his development (or maybe that was an unconfirmed rumor/debate?).  

If that's the case, then it makes sense that an owner would want to start a player at the lower minor league levels and let him work his way up as he progresses.  Start him at a level higher than his ratings can handle, he'll struggle and stagnate.

If somebody can confirm this, that would be great.

I wasn't suggesting I've stumbled across anything. There seems to be more difference of opinion on whether game performance and stagnation have an impact, compared to the consensus that coaching rating and playing time are crucial to development. One reason I put last year's #1 pick in AAA was to gauge for myself the effects performance and stagnation have. I had $15M for HS scouting last season and use a spreadsheet to create projections based on the development formula posted somewhere on here, which over time has seemed pretty accurate. my hope is that after his next-season sprint training ratings come out, the projections from my scouts and from the formula are a decent match. If I keep him in AAA for a few seasons, I'll eventually have at least a good guess as to how much performance and stagnation impact development.

Yes, my record stinks. I took on a couple of abandoned franchises and in both cases had to drop them after a few seasons of rebuilding because of finances. The one world I'm in now was a new one, and I opted to build for the future after a couple of strong season after one of my division rivals stripped a few new owners of their best players and then bailed when they started to age.

I wasn't really being critical of your record.  I was simply pointing out that a lot of owners have played a lot of seasons and virtually none put their #1 picks in AAA right off the bat.   There has to be a reason because that's likely where your best minor league coaches are.

FWIW, I admire you desire to experiment to find things out.   However, you could have put a 3rd rounder in AAA and discovered similar things rather than risk damaging a #1.

Hell, I'd be critical of my record. Good point about the 3rd rounder. I wanted to do the test with a player who has middling makeup so it would be typical, high health rating so injury disruptions are less likely, and good enough that he'll be ready to help in the majors after a couple of seasons rather than 5. He's more or less a long reliever or short starter, so chances are I'll have a spot for him in the pen or in a spot-starter role when he's 21. I'd expect that the low patience rating would exaggerate any impact from stagnation.

whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx

It's not that I don't believe you can "fast-track" players, Hardball Dynasty – Fantasy Baseball Sim Games - Player Profile: Matt Christensen is a good example.   But I don't think your plan should be "Put in AAA and bring him up in 3-4 seasons".