Also, does the HBD Runs Created formula factor stolen bases and caught stealing? Not all do. Given the massive difference between these two guys, I would assume SB/CS are factored.

http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=3479758

http://www.whatifsports.com/HBD/Pages/Popups/PlayerProfile.aspx?pid=3480519

Posted by tedwmoore on 7/8/2012 9:06:00 PM (view original):
Yeah, I didn't even look at the players.

Player A: 291/357/632 with 15/2 SB/CS
Player B: 300/396/590 with 60/4 SB/CS

Then mention this:

Player A: bats left in Arizona
Player B: bats right in San Francisco

I already mentioned Wirth played in a pitcher's park. Sorry for not giving you the location.

I have no idea how the SIM actually determines winners or who is eligibile for what.

But, with that being said, if you don't understand why a OBP/SLG combo of .400/.590 is better than .360/.630, you might want to rethink what you know about baseball.

Posted by Jtpsops on 7/8/2012 9:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jsturgis5866 on 7/8/2012 9:03:00 PM (view original):
Riley wasn't eligible for the LF award because he is assigned to 1B. And it's RC, not RC27 that's used.

It looks like owner error to me.

Incorrect. Riley and Wirth have been flipflopping for the last few weeks under LF SS in the Awards page. Riley was also an All-Star in LF.

AS doesn't matter. Look at the LF list.. Riley's not even on it. That tells you it is your problem, not the formula.

And, btw, using RC27, Wirth absolutely murdered Riley .. If Wirth hadn't been hurt, you wouldn't have had anything to whine about.

Anne this: some singular stats do a good job of providing an overview of value, like WAR and RC. It is not that they are the only stats worth considering, but that they encompass so much into them that they provide a useful and accurate measuring stick for different players. So, for instance, most formulas for Runs Created include a good number of the stats you used, like singles and doubles and home runs (and if you factor 2B, 3B and HR there is no reason to double count by discussing XBH), but also other measures of offensive performance, like non intentional walks, stolen bases and caught stealing, hits with runners in scoring position (not all use this), etc. I do not know HBD's formula, but I bet it includes almost ever category you mentioned.

Posted by details5252 on 7/8/2012 9:11:00 PM (view original):
I have no idea how the SIM actually determines winners or who is eligibile for what.

But, with that being said, if you don't understand why a OBP/SLG combo of .400/.590 is better than .360/.630, you might want to rethink what you know about baseball.

It's all listed in the FAQ. It's RC modified slightly by park factor. Park factor was irrelevant here.

Posted by jsturgis5866 on 7/8/2012 9:11:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 7/8/2012 9:05:00 PM (view original):

Posted by jsturgis5866 on 7/8/2012 9:03:00 PM (view original):
Riley wasn't eligible for the LF award because he is assigned to 1B. And it's RC, not RC27 that's used.

It looks like owner error to me.

Incorrect. Riley and Wirth have been flipflopping for the last few weeks under LF SS in the Awards page. Riley was also an All-Star in LF.

AS doesn't matter. Look at the LF list.. Riley's not even on it. That tells you it is your problem, not the formula.

And, btw, using RC27, Wirth absolutely murdered Riley .. If Wirth hadn't been hurt, you wouldn't have had anything to whine about.

Try reading my previous post again. 3 days ago the leader in LF for SS was Carl Riley. I'm pretty sure that means he was eligible to win it - unless, you know, they just felt like letting us know a 1B was having a better offensive year than all the LFs in the league.

Posted by jsturgis5866 on 7/8/2012 9:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by details5252 on 7/8/2012 9:11:00 PM (view original):
I have no idea how the SIM actually determines winners or who is eligibile for what.

But, with that being said, if you don't understand why a OBP/SLG combo of .400/.590 is better than .360/.630, you might want to rethink what you know about baseball.

It's all listed in the FAQ. It's RC modified slightly by park factor. Park factor was irrelevant here.

This is potentially correct but misleading: FAQ says runs created and park factor. That tells us nothing of how heavily park factor is weighted, and your assertion that park factor was irrelevant here is more than a bit tenuous.

Posted by jsturgis5866 on 7/8/2012 9:13:00 PM (view original):

Posted by details5252 on 7/8/2012 9:11:00 PM (view original):
I have no idea how the SIM actually determines winners or who is eligibile for what.

But, with that being said, if you don't understand why a OBP/SLG combo of .400/.590 is better than .360/.630, you might want to rethink what you know about baseball.

It's all listed in the FAQ. It's RC modified slightly by park factor. Park factor was irrelevant here.

I think you missed my point js. There are very few ways you can compare those guys and conclude Riley is better. You don't even need advanced stats (unless OPS is still advanced)

Park factor had to be relevant, because Riley was ahead of Wirth in RC alone (not RC/27).

And details - once again the difference in their OBP was 21 walks. That's only made significant by Wirth's speed, which is valuable for sure. But in and of itself, .400/.590 is not clearly better than .360/.630. Just depends what you need the guy for - setting up runs or driving them in.

And by the way, that to me is also what is flawed about RC - it doesn't take RBI or game situation into account. Is the guy who gets to first base and eventually scores more valuable than the guy who drives him in? And yes, you could go the other way - a 2-run single is more valuable than a solo HR. But RC doesn't take that stuff into account. It weights all singles, doubles, triples and HR equally, and they're not.

Dude, seriously, a 986 OPS with 60 stolen bases against 4 CS versus a 989 OPS with 15 stolen bases against 2 CS: how is this worthy of a rant. Oh, and again, the guy with only three fewer points of OPS plays in San Francisco while the other plays in Arizona. Like someone else mentioned, advanced stats are not even needed here.