Posted by oldave on 6/6/2014 4:58:00 PM (view original):
i agree with trail and joe  (and not just cause their my socal conf mates!)

as for bh point about spoonfeeding... i can understand that perspective, but not neecassily agree with it in this case ...

reminds me of a big argument in the very very early days.   there was no search tool for recruiting.  i think you had to open each player individually?  heck i dont remember exactly,  but one of theo arguments against updating the recruiting menus and preocess was that the info would be spoonfed to coaches and then the lazy ones would have all the info that was hitherto only available to the diligent coaches who took the time to sift through all the data.  

others may disagree, but i think the more information that is out there,  and the more readily available it is.... the better.   the coaches who want to dig and find those deeper layers and small advantages will find them... i promise you.

Good perspective, oldave. You (and others) have kind of changed my mind about this. I'd still definitely want to see the actual overall ratings as the default, but a click option that takes out the redshirt and walk-ons seems like a pretty good idea, esp to get newer coaches in the habit of realizing why the two aren't necessarily the same. Like you said, more info being out there is good for the growth of the game, even if it's not for an individual coach in the short term.

Overall rating is meaningless. Really it is. Why worry about it at all? I don't Gameplan that way anyway. I look at who is playing where and how they perform, not the whole roster.

Posted by kbc167 on 6/8/2014 3:53:00 PM (view original):
Overall rating is meaningless. Really it is. Why worry about it at all? I don't Gameplan that way anyway. I look at who is playing where and how they perform, not the whole roster.

As do any good coaches, but in that case would you propose that we not display the overall rating or category averages on team pages at all? 

I think it's fine as a reference point. If I see a team that is a 450 in D3 versus a 600 overall, then it's useful. But we have all seem teams with the 20th best overall rating in a world win a title while sometimes teams that are top 10 in overall ratings (with or without walkons), struggle.

I think they are nice to see but I'm actually much more interested in a teams overall defense and athleticism ratings. I also consider the experience and ability of the opposing coach.

So sure I would keep it. I just wouldn't waste much energy trying to remove walkons. I don't think it will help in any way, personally.

But you say you look at overall defense and athleticism ratings, which would be effected by this as well. That would be the main use, so you could gameplan in a rush by look at category averages w/o walk-ons or redshirts factoring in. 

Posted by trail on 6/9/2014 3:25:00 AM (view original):
But you say you look at overall defense and athleticism ratings, which would be effected by this as well. That would be the main use, so you could gameplan in a rush by look at category averages w/o walk-ons or redshirts factoring in. 

bingo. i definitely gp based on average ath/spd/def ratings - mine and my opponents'. though it only takes a minute to put both into .doc tables and delete the RS / WO's to get the true ratings. 

So let's see.  My D2 team's overall Ath is 50.

Are all my guys clustered in the 45-55 range?  Are my 6 bigs averaging 65 and my 6 littles 35 with lots of speed?

My D2 team's overall Def is 50.

Again, is it a cluster?  Am I starting 5 upperclassmen with an average rating of 75, while the bench is a bunch of freshmen and sophomores averaging in the low 30's?

My D2 team's overall speed is 50.

40-60, team-wide?  Or do I have one guy with a 95 rating, two 85's and three 70's, along with a few plodding centers with a rating between 1 and 15 and some mediocre speed ratings to round out the roster?

Unless you're dealing with extremes, category averages tell you nothing about how a team is put together.  Sure, if you're in D2 and you see a 75/75 Ath/Def team you're going to sit up and take notice... but then you've probably already observed that you're a 40-point dog at home against them.