Posted by kayan121110 on 12/16/2016 10:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 9:56:00 AM (view original):
No, you are welcome to spend as much, or as little, time playing an internet game as you choose. This is AMERICA!!!! You are FREE to do what you want. Unless you're an illegal. Then Trump is gonna send your *** back to Mexico where the Mexican govt will force you to build a wall that you can't climb. Unless a fence will do in that specific area.

But pretending like there just isn't enough time to scout is ridiculous. As I've said several times, real n00bs read these threads. You make it sound like HD scouting is akin to real life scouting. It isn't. It's a few clicks. The parameters of what you want to scout are pretty well-defined. Only want D1 projected SG/PG within 100 miles? 4 clicks. Found five? Want to scout them to the next level? 7 clicks. It's a matter of minutes not hours and damn sure not days.

Is that satire? I mean only a delusional inbred idiot would think Mexico is going to pay for a multi-billion dollar fence. Not to mention, if you just do a little reading you will see that most undocumented immigrants are not from Mexico so I am not really sure why you would send them back there. It would be much easier to just send your *** back to Russia.

Not satire. Sarcasm. I thought "Unless a fence will do in that specific area" would convey that. Oh well.

Humor is not well-received in this forum.

Posted by metsmax on 12/16/2016 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Facts for Mike and any noobs

In my experience, under 2.0 I could do a full season of scouting in 30 minutes. I often joked about wanting a superturbo world which, rather than just two games a day, would play a game every two hours - one hour recruiting cycles.....ultrafast.

In my experience, in 3.0, I need to spend a few hours to feel that I have done a good job on scouting. There is more to it. Thats how long it takes me. I am a very experienced player. I bet i could blast through it faster and it would be okay. I bet that if I continue to play for many seasons, I will get more facile at it.

But, for Mike and any noobs it is not silliness to think that having teams in 8 or 9 worlds as I once did in this game would require more effort than some users - like this user- want to devote to a game.

It isnt silly and it isnt pretending. It is my experience and my preference. Mike, you really need to look into the meaning of words like pretending before using them.

"a few hours". Over the course of 25 days, you can probably find those.

You don't like 3.0. That's fine. But don't act like scouting is so time-consuming you had to go from 6 teams to 1.

I'm not acting like that - its the truth - its why I cut back. you can like the truth or not. But you know what others think better than they do - you should not pretend to know what people think

It's why you cut back from 6 to 1? The only reason you cut back from 6 to 1 is because scouting was more time consuming and you only had time for 1 team? I don't think even you believe that. I'm almost positive no one else does.

I have no doubt that you find it more time consuming. You're not the first to say that so I'm forced to believe you. But I don't believe it is 6x more time consuming. I think you're misrepresenting why you went from 6-1. Scouting played a part, I'm sure, but you're acting as if it was the only reason.

Scouting is not difficult. There are a lot of parameters you can use that really cuts out a lot of clicking. Granted, I come from HBD, which is time-consuming, but I don't believe, over the course of 25 days, that one can't find time to scout to their personal level of comfort.

The fact that you're being disingenuous in the reason why you went from 6-1 is what bothers me. You're throwing up a "If you don't have a ton of time, you just can't play HD" red flag and that's annoying.

Posted by mullycj on 12/16/2016 8:45:00 AM (view original):

Posted by bathtubhippo on 12/16/2016 7:12:00 AM (view original):

Posted by mullycj on 12/16/2016 6:44:00 AM (view original):
Maybe for those few coaches for can't make the postseason despite in a world with only 90 humans....

if you're in the title game and you don't change jobs and have zero/minimal recruiting left in session 2, you still basically have 8 dead days. sure, at D1 you might have 1 day of session 2 recruiting in there to finish a battle for a "late" recruit or pick up a scrap for your EE; at D2/D3 you may battle for a day or two (unsure since I mostly play D1 in HD3). of course, it's much longer if you don't make the postseason or lose early. i got upset in the first round in Smith this season and added, what, another 4 days to the dead time? I changed jobs in another world a couple seasons back and didn't make the postseason, lost in the first round of the CT, and just sat around for 2 weeks not playing that world.

essentially, the majority of your users are looking at 20-25% of the days in the entire season are just dead time. that's a lot of time to do nothing as a player, and, from WIS' perspective, I'd think they want to keep people more engaged. I'd probably cut a day from the 2nd recruiting session, a day from job changes, and that weird day at the beginning of the season...do new coaches really need a day at the beginning of the season to sign up? can't they sign up any of the previous 40-50 days? that's 3 days you save right there.

Add a second team and you have 0 off days then

totally irrelevant to the point i was making about downtime within the schedule structure, but thanks for the advice?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 12:14:00 PM (view original):
It's why you cut back from 6 to 1? The only reason you cut back from 6 to 1 is because scouting was more time consuming and you only had time for 1 team? I don't think even you believe that. I'm almost positive no one else does.

I have no doubt that you find it more time consuming. You're not the first to say that so I'm forced to believe you. But I don't believe it is 6x more time consuming. I think you're misrepresenting why you went from 6-1. Scouting played a part, I'm sure, but you're acting as if it was the only reason.

Scouting is not difficult. There are a lot of parameters you can use that really cuts out a lot of clicking. Granted, I come from HBD, which is time-consuming, but I don't believe, over the course of 25 days, that one can't find time to scout to their personal level of comfort.

The fact that you're being disingenuous in the reason why you went from 6-1 is what bothers me. You're throwing up a "If you don't have a ton of time, you just can't play HD" red flag and that's annoying.

Agreed, mostly due to people who might want to try out the new HD that peruse these forums looking for insights on the game. Scouting does not take that long, especially when you consider the amount of time you have to do it. I don't know about handling 6 teams, but I'm a n00b and still manage to scout for the 2 teams I have, and both teams combined don't take as much of a time commitment as one off-season in HBD does.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 12:14:00 PM (view original):
It's why you cut back from 6 to 1? The only reason you cut back from 6 to 1 is because scouting was more time consuming and you only had time for 1 team? I don't think even you believe that. I'm almost positive no one else does.

I have no doubt that you find it more time consuming. You're not the first to say that so I'm forced to believe you. But I don't believe it is 6x more time consuming. I think you're misrepresenting why you went from 6-1. Scouting played a part, I'm sure, but you're acting as if it was the only reason.

Scouting is not difficult. There are a lot of parameters you can use that really cuts out a lot of clicking. Granted, I come from HBD, which is time-consuming, but I don't believe, over the course of 25 days, that one can't find time to scout to their personal level of comfort.

The fact that you're being disingenuous in the reason why you went from 6-1 is what bothers me. You're throwing up a "If you don't have a ton of time, you just can't play HD" red flag and that's annoying.

At high DI, scouting is absolutely 6X more time-consuming than at 2.0. At least it is for me -- maybe I'm inefficient. In 2.0, scouting took me about 5 minutes max -- scout the nearby states, pick my top 4 or 5 targets, and go. It absolutely takes me over 30 min to do this in 3.0 -- mainly because I have to spend time looking at players in 3.0 that I wouldn't have touched in 2.0. You have to dip far deeper into the player pool -- again, maybe I'm inefficient -- but the additional time that it takes to scout adequately is by design.

I am baffled why you are accusing someone you even know of lying about this, especially since you weren't even a 2.0 player. If I'm a noob, my takeaway from this is that you're talking out your ***.

One final point -- I've found humor is well-received on the forums if it's actually funny, and isn't propounded along with 300 other posts trolling people and clogging threads up.

Regarding scouting, and how much time people think they need to spend on it, I think hughesjr's post a few weeks ago is a nice way to approach it, especially if you feel overwhelmed by the process. My own process isn't exactly like this, but it's similar, and as I've said often, I never spend more than about 30 minutes total on initial scouting - the only time I spend more is if I need or want to go back and look a little deeper after recruiting has started, and I get a feel for where battles are heading.

"If you do this for scouting, you should have many recruits in your pool:

1. Use google maps and only scout states initially that are 400 miles from your city. Could be a fairly small area of states. You only pay $15 per recruit per level .. it is important that you do this BEFORE you advance anyone in the state to level 4, otherwise you waste that cash, as you get charged for every recruit, but you may not get e level. This will end up being more like 500 or 600 miles total from your city when all is said and done.
2. Do a local camp at 200 recruits. You pay $12,000 for 400 levels (2 levels for 200 recruits) .. that is $30/recruit per level.
3. You could do the elite camp that covers your area (or skip it). This is normally $25 per recruit per level, but you will scout some d2 guys .. but even if you only look at D1 guys the for the elite camps, the cost per recruit is about: $46/D1-recruit per level.
4. Pick Assistant Scouts and pic Division 1, the positions you are going to fill, and 100 miles. Scout until the recruiting history shows 0 new recruits and cash does not go down. Then move to 200 miles and do it again. Then 300 miles, then 400 miles etc. The assistant coach search is $60/recruit per level.

If you give in to the temptation to scout individual players, it will cost somewhere between: $700 per recruit per level to a minimum of $105 per recruit per recruit per level at like 10 miles. At 500 miles, it is about $225 per recruit per level to scout individually. You can easily spend all your scouting cash this way, and not scout many guys past level 3.

At the end of that process, I normally (at division 1) have more than 400 recruits at level 2 or higher .. almost all at scouting level 3 or scouting level 4 .. with only ONE opening. Obviously, I have a bit more with more openings.

I also normally find every recruit within 500 or 750 miles of my city. If you can save some scouting cash (maybe $2500 to $3000) then you can search within 100, 200, 30, 400, 500, etc, one step at a time at the beginning of the 2nd recruiting period .. only initially looking for NEW recruits, and find any transfers for only $60 per recruit. Obviously this ONLY works if you had scouted all guys within that distance before transfers start like I suggested in 4. above.

If you find all the Div-1 recruits within 500 miles of your city, it is virtually impossible that you will not be able to find a couple good guys in recruiting period one who have only Division-2 or Division-3 guys on them who want to sign early, before then end of period 1, or whenever (50% shot they sign in period 1) . There is a good chance you can go above Moderate on one or two of those guys and sign them if even you have zero recruiting dollars left.

It has been my experience that while they might not be superstars .. they will be at least good backups.

Now, if you only look at the top 100 (where every other d1 coach is looking) then you may not be able to find any guys cheaply.

In order for this to work, you do have to figure out a method to progress the potential for the recruits who you get to scouting level 3 and scouting level 4. You need to use the attribute ranges included in the guide provided by Benis / chapel and progress the potential to find good players who are not in the overall top 100.

Ways to waste money:

1. Do to many FSS states. This will give you a lot of level 1 guys who you may not be able to scout past level 1. If you stay within 500 miles, you will be able to move al most all of them to at least level 2.

2. Do individual scouting .. this is at least double (and sometimes much more than that) the cost of any other method. You will blow through scouting cash using individual scouting.

3. Paying for camps that are far from your campus. You only get one level for a camp (other than your locally help camp, where you get 2 levels). If you get only guys > 500 miles, you may not be able to easily advance them. You can 'only progress' guys you have found with the assistant search, so if you take not a LOT of guys > 500, you can still progress them to level 2 or 3 for $60/recruit per level. But be careful :)

Is this the best method to find players .. no idea. It is the one I normally employ."

Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

Come on. Your new position of "I'm not accusing him of lying, I'm just accusing him of misrepresenting" is just a semantic game. You accused metsmax of being dishonest with no evidence whatsoever, and no frame of reference, since you didn't even play 2.0. You have no idea why he dropped his teams. Again, if your goal is -- as you seem to want it to be -- to make the forums better/friendlier/easier for newbies, throwing out wild accusations is an odd way to go about it.

Mike - some of what you say is amusing. Some is just plain seeking to argue. You are being offensive when you call me a liar.

I complained about scouting when the system was described.

I complained about scouting during the beta

I said that it was a click fest. I said that it would take way to much time and effort. I said that it was too much work for a game.

Early in the beta, it had filters that were awful. they were improved. Scouting still takes too long for me

There are other features of 3.0 that I think need improvement, but as soon as 3.0 was described, I started cutting back on teams - dropping first one and then another

You are wrong and you are being offensive. You have no business calling me or anyone a liar when we speak about our reasons for our actions.

Apologize.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

"you put a number on it while mexmat did not"

do you actually read the posts you quote?

I said in a post that you quoted and replied to that I was able to scout fully in 2.0 in apx 30 minutes while it takes me a few hours in 3.0. I went on to mention some caveats

Mike- why are you lying on these forums?

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 11:02:00 AM (view original):

Posted by metsmax on 12/16/2016 10:09:00 AM (view original):
Facts for Mike and any noobs

In my experience, under 2.0 I could do a full season of scouting in 30 minutes. I often joked about wanting a superturbo world which, rather than just two games a day, would play a game every two hours - one hour recruiting cycles.....ultrafast.

In my experience, in 3.0, I need to spend a few hours to feel that I have done a good job on scouting. There is more to it. Thats how long it takes me. I am a very experienced player. I bet i could blast through it faster and it would be okay. I bet that if I continue to play for many seasons, I will get more facile at it.

But, for Mike and any noobs it is not silliness to think that having teams in 8 or 9 worlds as I once did in this game would require more effort than some users - like this user- want to devote to a game.

It isnt silly and it isnt pretending. It is my experience and my preference. Mike, you really need to look into the meaning of words like pretending before using them.

"a few hours". Over the course of 25 days, you can probably find those.

You don't like 3.0. That's fine. But don't act like scouting is so time-consuming you had to go from 6 teams to 1.

metsmax didnt offer numbers Mike?

see the post that you quoted - in which I provided numbers based on my experience

do you often lie when posting here?

Posted by johnsensing on 12/16/2016 2:20:00 PM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 2:11:00 PM (view original):
Fair enough. You put a number on it while mexmat did not. Over the course of 25 days, 30-40 minutes does not seem overly time-consuming. If one really doesn't have that much free time a month, silly internet games are probably not for them. Even with 6 teams, we're talking about an hour a week using the numbers you provided.

FWIW, I'm not accusing him of lying. That seems rough even from me. I accused him of misrepresenting why he went from 6 teams to 1. It wasn't entirely because of scouting. If he wants to insist it was, I might cross over from "misrepresenting" to "lying".

And, once again, I don't consider myself "trolling" about 95% of the time. I offer a dissenting view to those who completely hate what 3.0 did to "their" game. I'd say "If that's perceived as trolling, I'm sorry" but we know that's a lie. I'm not sorry even a tiny bit. The game is what it is. Play it, don't play it. But discouraging others with negativity seems like sour grapes.

Come on. Your new position of "I'm not accusing him of lying, I'm just accusing him of misrepresenting" is just a semantic game. You accused metsmax of being dishonest with no evidence whatsoever, and no frame of reference, since you didn't even play 2.0. You have no idea why he dropped his teams. Again, if your goal is -- as you seem to want it to be -- to make the forums better/friendlier/easier for newbies, throwing out wild accusations is an odd way to go about it.

I think there's a difference. Somehow this became a discussion on scouting. At that point he said "I went from 6 to 1 because scouting is so time-consuming." Do YOU think that's the only reason? Admittedly, I do not. That doesn't mean he's lying. Scouting may have been a breaking point but it is NOT the only reason he finds 3.0 distasteful. And it's NOT the only reason he went from 6 to 1. But, in this thread, that's what's being represented.

My goal is not to make the HD forum better/friendler/easier for n00bs. I don't really have a goal. But I don't want n00bs to be turned away due to misinformation on the game or misrepresentation of the game.

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 10:59:00 AM (view original):

Posted by kayan121110 on 12/16/2016 10:13:00 AM (view original):

Posted by MikeT23 on 12/16/2016 9:56:00 AM (view original):
No, you are welcome to spend as much, or as little, time playing an internet game as you choose. This is AMERICA!!!! You are FREE to do what you want. Unless you're an illegal. Then Trump is gonna send your *** back to Mexico where the Mexican govt will force you to build a wall that you can't climb. Unless a fence will do in that specific area.

But pretending like there just isn't enough time to scout is ridiculous. As I've said several times, real n00bs read these threads. You make it sound like HD scouting is akin to real life scouting. It isn't. It's a few clicks. The parameters of what you want to scout are pretty well-defined. Only want D1 projected SG/PG within 100 miles? 4 clicks. Found five? Want to scout them to the next level? 7 clicks. It's a matter of minutes not hours and damn sure not days.

Is that satire? I mean only a delusional inbred idiot would think Mexico is going to pay for a multi-billion dollar fence. Not to mention, if you just do a little reading you will see that most undocumented immigrants are not from Mexico so I am not really sure why you would send them back there. It would be much easier to just send your *** back to Russia.

Not satire. Sarcasm. I thought "Unless a fence will do in that specific area" would convey that. Oh well.

Humor is not well-received in this forum.

I laughed