this guy arrived with STAM of 41 and WE of 19 - now, there is a big difference between 19 and 9

but by senior year his STAM is now 75 - starting with green STAM made it possible for him to really improve even with limited early starts (but lots of early minutes - as many as he could handle - of course, he seemed to get tired walking to the scorers table)

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=3382&pid=4445291

Posted by metsmax on 6/27/2020 7:02:00 AM (view original):
this guy arrived with STAM of 41 and WE of 19 - now, there is a big difference between 19 and 9

but by senior year his STAM is now 75 - starting with green STAM made it possible for him to really improve even with limited early starts (but lots of early minutes - as many as he could handle - of course, he seemed to get tired walking to the scorers table)

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=3382&pid=4445291

How many practice minutes did you put in conditioning for him?

at least 20 for conditioning - at times up to 25

more as a JR and SR as he maxed out or approached max in other categories

Well I appreciate all the feedback and advice, I don’t think he’s hopeless like have 1 or 2 WE but still an uphill battle to move him forward, I still like him as a defending big man at least, depends on how it goes, he might still have some distro. I will update the journey and see what happens.

I have this player on other team as well, he started at 18 WE and I haven’t seen a large decline anywhere and his ST has been able to stay fairly well, obviously a lot better ST than the others mentioned but still gives me hope.

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=4490&pid=4524641

This guy has been a huge success of a 16 WE recruit.

+12 ATH + 11 SP + 13 DE + 17 PER +15 BH + 15 PA + 10 STA and 16 to 29 WE through two years.

i don't disagree these kinds of guys can work, but its a relatively fine line. i think a lot of folks won't dip below 30 we or so and in general i disagree with that approach. recently signed a 14 WE 59 sta green guy on a high end fb/fcp d1 team, which is you know, pushing that line pretty hard. with perhaps 23m cond (thats what it is now), he gained 6 sta and will likely lose 4 or 5. i'm banking on being able to pick that up the next 2 seasons, but its honestly really, really close to unacceptable. granted, this is fb/fcp - other folks can go lower - but this dude also has some sick caps and is solid walking in the door, so that helps tremendously.

however, there is a big difference between a guy with 9 WE and 48 blue stamina, and a dude with 14 WE and 59 green stamina (our guy), or cubs guy, or mets' guy. stamina growth with bad WE is a royal PITA, once you get about a dozen points out, its really hard to get your in-season gain to do meaningfully more than offsetting the off season hit. WE growth also is not really that bad by 20 WE but it is horrible at 1 WE so there is really world of difference in there. same goes for player growth.

my normal cutoff is about where cub's guy is, he went 16->29 in 2 years (a bit better than most should count on). that is tolerable. our guy at 14 is almost a whole season behind, you expect about 3 points of growth for a starter with 14-17 WE. a guy with 9 WE is almost 3 seasons behind cub's guy, in WE growth. 9->11->14->17 or so. that is brutal! the value of a point of WE in that low range is so much more than most WE, it might be weird sounding to call a 5-10 WE difference 'massive' - but truly, it is.

A guy with WE of 9 who was the #1 SG coming out of high school - now our 11th man at St Johns because his WE and potentials never let him progress

Type	A	SPD	REB	DE	BLK	LP	PE	BH	P	WE	ST	DU	FT	OVR
Current	83	73	32	85	29	55	68	83	82	1	70	73	C+	734
Season Start	82	73	33	84	29	55	68	82	82	1	70	72	C+	731
Season End	84	74	33	87	29	56	68	82	85	1	72	72	C+	743
Season Start	81	73	34	86	29	53	68	81	84	15	71	69	C	744
Season End	83	74	33	85	28	53	68	81	84	15	74	67	C	745
Season Start	82	74	34	83	28	49	68	77	83	14	74	66	C	732
Season End	85	73	34	84	28	49	68	78	84	14	79	64	C	740
Season Start	83	73	35	82	27	45	67	73	83	11	78	62	C-	719
Season End	81	75	35	84	28	45	68	74	83	11	80	61	C-	725
Season Start	78	74	36	83	28	42	68	70	82	9	80	57	D+	707

stats

Yr.	Pos	GP	GS	MIN	FG%	FG3%	FT%	OREB	REB	AST	TO	STL	BLK	PF	PTS
Sr.	SG	26	0	9.7	.471	.000	.682	0.3	1.0	1.3	0.4	0.4	0.0	0.6	1.2

Ricky could have been great with a better WE - we gave him 18 minutes per game as a FR, 22 as a SO (and 17 starts) and 16 as a JR.

Since he wasnt going to play as a SR, I did a senior redshirt - and now he's our 11th man.....

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=0&pid=4390128

Did he start as a frosh?

nope, got him 18 minutes per game, but not a starter as FR

As promised, here are the results of the 9 WE and low stamina DI player, he's not fully finished growing, however, he's go through all the off-seasons where the downgrades happen....all in all, I am pretty pleased with his progress.

Hoops Dynasty – College Basketball Sim Games - Sidney Yepez - Ratings - Phelan - Hoops Dynasty Basketball | WhatIfSports

Posted by metsmax on 6/27/2020 7:02:00 AM (view original):
this guy arrived with STAM of 41 and WE of 19 - now, there is a big difference between 19 and 9

but by senior year his STAM is now 75 - starting with green STAM made it possible for him to really improve even with limited early starts (but lots of early minutes - as many as he could handle - of course, he seemed to get tired walking to the scorers table)

https://www.whatifsports.com/hd/PlayerProfile/RatingsHistory.aspx?tid=3382&pid=4445291

the guy who started with STAM of 41 and WE of 19 ended up twice first team all conference in the ACC - and third team All American.

but there is a very big difference between 19 WE and 9WE,