A free ~$18M in Advance Scouting Topic

MikeT23
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So you do think there's a difference between a 86 and a 78(just using a middle of the pack PC and the worst in MG).
11/17/2009 10:07 AM
snake_p
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The OP has an interesting idea, or constellation of ideas really. Probably worth some thought and even some experimentation. It is a big picture kind of post.

As usual, miket seems to entirely miss the big picture and get sidetracked on minutae, dragging the thread with him. It is a marvel to me that people still read his posts. miket, I don't think three-line posts are beyond your ability to read, I think the big picture may just be beyond your grasp.

[Cue the little kids to put pictures in the thread now]
11/17/2009 10:16 AM
MikeT23
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 11/15/2009
Coaches actually do matter. So does playing time. Not disputing that player development is pretty standard from team to team. My players develop a certain way because of the way I do things. Others develop their players differently for the same reason.

If you don't think coaches/playing time matter, hire a bunch of crappy coaches and let your best prospects sit the bench. I'd be interested in seeing how that works for you.



I'll break my "Ignore the alias" motto just this once. I actually agreed with the premise of the original post. You may notice that I've been using 0 ADV for quite some time. He took it off track with his insinuation that you really can't do much with developing players. Which is entirely wrong.
11/17/2009 10:29 AM
snake_p
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Quote: Originally Posted By MikeT23 on 11/17/2009
I actually agreed with the premise of the original post...
... that coaching and managerial moves have little to do with a player's development, that development pretty much follows along the formula the OP offered regardless of what you do as a user, extreme blunders excepted.

Somehow I didn't see that in your posts.
11/17/2009 10:47 AM
crabman26
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While this may be true, I think it ruins the fun for me. I dont play this game to crack the codes and have everything pretty much figured out as to how a player will develop (+ or - a few points).

I think I will stick with my higher advanced scouting budgets and hiring above average coaches and watch my player develop, hoping he becomes the player my scouts are saying he will....

Just adds more realism for me...

To each their own, more power to you!
11/17/2009 11:15 AM
MikeT23
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It's not entirely true. And, as I mentioned, I develop players a certain way, you probably develop them differently. I have no doubt that TJ74 tested his formula repeatedly on his players and found something that worked(except for being a point or two off on occassion). I do the same thing with my players without using a formula. I could look at 40-50 of your players and get a feel for how you do it. But his formula, my eyeball and your ADV scouting all have holes. It's up to each owner to figure out what works best for them.
11/17/2009 11:20 AM
crabman26
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Quote: Originally posted by MikeT23 on 11/17/2009It's not entirely true.  And, as I mentioned, I develop players a certain way, you probably develop them differently.   I have no doubt that TJ74 tested his formula repeatedly on his players and found something that worked(except for being a point or two off on occassion). I do the same thing with my players without using a formula.   I could look at 40-50 of your players and get a feel for how you do it.  But his formula, my eyeball and your ADV scouting all have holes.  It's up to each owner to figure out what works best for them.

Very true...I guess my way puts me at a disadvantage though because I am tying that money up in scouting as opposed to my roster/ other areas...
11/17/2009 12:24 PM
MikeT23
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You have an advantage in that it takes 2-3 seasons for a pattern to develop. If you want to trade for a S12 draftee in S13, you've got something to base it on. I'm just hoping that he was a legit 2nd round pick or 5m IFA. You've yourself with more options, I've myself with more money. Essentially, I won't trade for 2nd year players because I can't really tell where they'll be in their 4th-5th year.
11/17/2009 12:29 PM
crabman26
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touche...guess it evens out then in the end...
11/17/2009 12:37 PM
MikeT23
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There's a comfort level with ADV. Personally, I think of it like gambling. I take that 15-20m and put it in amateur scouting. With that, I'm hoping to get one player. Maybe I see someone that I wouldn't have seen and get him. Or maybe I don't. The guy with 15-20m in ADV see projections on 1st/2nd year players. He's hoping he can get one from someone who undervalues him because of low ADV. Or maybe he doesn't find a trade partner. Either way, you hit on something or you don't. But you feel comfortable with your decision because it's the one you made in hopes of making your team better.

I believe in 0 ADV. I wouldn't tell anyone else to do it because it may take them out of their comfort zone.
11/17/2009 12:57 PM
crabman26
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To be honest, I find I make few trades anyway because I labor so much over every player I am giving away...so I may actually try this 0 ADV and put it more into international/ HS/ College.....

11/17/2009 1:34 PM
MikeT23
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If you're not going to trade for prospects, every dime you spend in ADV scouting is a waste. Your players are going to develop or they won't. Doesn't matter what your ADV scouting says.
11/17/2009 1:51 PM
crabman26
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True, but sometimes you never know if you are going to trade for prospects or not...there have been times where going into a season I thought my team would compete, and they lay a huge egg and I sell off some vets for prospects....guess you just have to trust your judgement on the one year players, and use this formula as a baseline for the 2-3 year prospects...
11/17/2009 1:55 PM
spudpicker
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I've thought this for a while... to make Advanced Scouting more useful, I really think they should have it affect both Current and Projected Ratings.

I personally think it's pretty unrealistic to know Current Ratings precisely for every player.

It'd be a dramatic change for how the game is played (and probably should've just started that way), but there's upsides and downsides to the idea of making the change at this point. Some will hate it, some might like it, I'll play the game either way and enjoy it.
11/17/2009 2:29 PM
MikeT23
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I mentioned this about 3 years ago. Instead of 0-100, 1-8 would have been far better. Production would mean something. Right now, if my 88/77/70/70/83 is doing better than my 90/85/75/75/94, it's just written off as small sample size or normal variance. But, if my identical 7/8/6/6/7 players had widely different stats, I'd believe one was a high end 7 while the other was low end.
11/17/2009 2:37 PM
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