Quote: Originally Posted By zhawks on 4/26/2010nam you can't even begin to use this years nbadraft #s for numerous reasons a) IRL players can come back. you can't in HD b) the CBA is the reason for the huge influx of EEs IRL, something that doesn't pertain to HD at all.

You just can't use this year as a mark for anything. sorry

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 4/26/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 4/26/2010
Apparently your Big East conference mate is rubbing off on you.

im not sure what you are insinuating, eminemintee, but i have not been "rubbing off" on anyone. what i do in the privacy of my own home is my business

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 4/27/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 4/26/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 4/26/2010
Apparently your Big East conference mate is rubbing off on you.

im not sure what you are insinuating, eminemintee, but i have not been "rubbing off" on anyone. what i do in the privacy of my own home is my business.

Who said I was talking about you, Davey boy?

please dont distract me, dude. i have a huge game to prepare for this afternoon.

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 4/27/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 4/27/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By oldave on 4/26/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 4/26/2010
Apparently your Big East conference mate is rubbing off on you.

im not sure what you are insinuating, eminemintee, but i have not been "rubbing off" on anyone. what i do in the privacy of my own home is my business.

Who said I was talking about you, Davey boy?



please dont distract me, dude. i have a huge game to prepare for this afternoon.

Quote: Originally Posted By gillispie on 4/27/2010

oldresorter
you can't really say enough about this guy, probably the most respected HD coach of all. he's the only person to ever win 3 straight d1 titles, and with 27 or some obscene number of titles, he is definitely the leader there. he is also the most experienced coach of the 3, which is certainly a strength in its own right. his d3 w conn state program is legendary, probably the greatest d3 program of all time. at w conn state, he racked up 8 titles in a span of just 15 seasons, with a 2nd round appearance or better in all 20 seasons. and his d1 uconn program is easily in contention for greatest d1 program of all time. at uconn, OR has 8 championships, including a stretch of 5 titles in 8 years and 3 in a row. while he seems to have lost some interest of late as mentioned above, he still has a handful of titles in pretty recent history, and no doubt can still coach with the best of them. i think he has a title with every offense and defense as well, which says a lot about the breadth of his greatness.

Quote: Originally Posted By gillispie on 4/27/2010

Quote: Originally posted by emy1013 on 4/27/2010
Also, I just wish (and keep striving) to get to the point where I have LM's problem with early entries. I know he's had a ton of them and if anyone has a right to complain about team's getting decimated, it's him. But damn, the guy is so good that he just reloads every season. It's hard to imagine how good his teams would be if early entries were eliminated from the game like some have suggested.

No disrespect meant to anyone else, because there are a lot of fine coaches playing HD, but in my opinion LM is the best. Billy_G is right there also, and OR (although he seems to have slightly lost interest) is still in the running, but LM is the best, no questions asked, no doubt in my mind about it.

I consider myself a decent coach (and managed to knock LM out of the first round of the Rupp D2 NT this season, patting myself on the back and bragging a little), but I can only dream about getting to the levels that he's consistently reached in a bunch of different worlds. Sorry if this sounds like I'm bowing down to him, but I am and I freely admit it. He's the king.

i generally try to stay out of this discussion, but as ive been drinking, ill take a stab at it. to make sure i don't give the wrong impression, ill get this out of the way up front - i think lostmyth and OR have the two best claims to "HDs greatest", and i consider myself lucky to be mentioned in their company.

i think most everyone would agree d1 is HDs highest stage. and lostmyth is the king of d1 today, no question about it. for that reason, i have to agree with emy, he is in command of the top spot right now. but, i think all three coaches mentioned have interesting positions, and each has something that sets them apart in their own way. im sure i am missing some stuff, so my apologies to lm and OR if i misrepresent anything or leave out some of your finer points. i am just doing this because i think some people would find it interesting.


oldresorter
you can't really say enough about this guy, probably the most respected HD coach of all. he's the only person to ever win 3 straight d1 titles, and with 27 or some obscene number of titles, he is definitely the leader there. he is also the most experienced coach of the 3, which is certainly a strength in its own right. his d3 w conn state program is legendary, probably the greatest d3 program of all time. at w conn state, he racked up 8 titles in a span of just 15 seasons, with a 2nd round appearance or better in all 20 seasons. and his d1 uconn program is easily in contention for greatest d1 program of all time. at uconn, OR has 8 championships, including a stretch of 5 titles in 8 years and 3 in a row. while he seems to have lost some interest of late as mentioned above, he still has a handful of titles in pretty recent history, and no doubt can still coach with the best of them. i think he has a title with every offense and defense as well, which says a lot about the breadth of his greatness.

the only semi weakness i can find in his resume, compared to the others, is he has played so many more seasons, so his title/season ratio is the lowest of the three. but, im sure its true for all of us that we have experimental teams, and teams we don't really care about, so its tough to put any weight on the title/season ratio. his w conn state and uconn programs prove he can put up exceptional title/season ratios if that was his goal.


lostmyth
with 19 or 20 titles, or something around there, lostmyth takes the #2 spot in most titles ever. but, he has clearly won the most d1 titles of the potential era, and its not very close. he is also the only coach to ever have multiple teams win back to back d1 titles, with 3 of the 6 programs to ever accomplish the feat. on a final d1 note, he has the best program in terms of consecutive d1 top 10 rpi seasons, and the top 2 programs in terms of consecutive d1 top 25 rpi seasons. his d1 prowess is simply unmatched in this day and age.

but, his success isn't limited to d1. the d2 dynasty he built at s connecticut state took home 3 championships in a span of just 5 years. they also hold the record for most consecutive sweet 16 appearances of all time at 15 (any division, any world). at e oregon in d3, lostmyth was able to win back to back championships. so clearly, his incredible level of success is not limited to d1 :) also, hes won a title with every offense and defense, giving him great breadth to his mastery of HD.


gillispie/coach_billyg
with 16 titles, and just 5 in d1, i am clearly last of the three in terms of raw accomplishments. but, i am also the youngest coach, by a pretty good amount, and have by far the least d1 experience. so, i like to think of myself as the wild card - the young coach who isn't as proven as the others, but who also hasn't had enough time to completely prove himself. i probably have the best season/title ratio, but with most coming in lower divisions, i don't think it means much.

my d1 career is interesting because it is relatively brief. other than a booster experiment team, and a team to experiment with my worst O/D (fb/zone), i've only played d1 on one account in one world, with 23 seasons. after 6 seasons getting used to d1 recruiting, and picking up a big 6 program, i won my first d1 title. this started a 5 championship in 9 season run at colorado and texas a&m, including back to back titles and 3 in 4 years. at the end of the run, i had 5 titles in 15 lifetime d1 seasons, which i assume is a very unique start to a d1 career. after that, i moved to kentucky, which was a complete rebuild and a totally different recruiting experience. i also was not very good with flex, so i traded motion for it, despite having won all 5 d1 titles with motion. so, it was surprisingly new to me, and i haven't been able to do much there in 7 seasons. so basically, im still learning, but because i put up one of the best title runs ever in such a short amount of time, i think i am a wild card here - a guy who *might* have it in him to challenge lostmyth for the d1 crown in 6 or 12 months when i have a better grasp of d1 recruiting.

i think my claim to fame is d2. in the potential era, my first and only long term d2 program, SIUE, is the top d2 program in any world. so i like to think i currently hold the d2 crown. SIUEs accomplishments include 8 titles, including 5 in 7 years and 3 straight. also, they hold the record for the most consecutive final fours of all time (any div, any world) at 7, and by far the most consecutive elite 8s of all time at 13 (next best is 8). they appear to be on track to capture the most consecutive top 10 and top 25 rpi seasons of all time, but are still about 3 seasons away on both.

while i have some strong intangibles, i also have a major negative intangible compared to the other guys - breadth of success. i have it across divisions, but i don't have the breadth in offensive/defensive sets. ive only ever won a title with the press. ive won multiple with flex, motion, and triangle, but never made it past the sweet 16 with fb, zone, or man. that stat is a little misleading, my relatively brief track record with those sets suggests i could build a good program around any of them if i stuck with it. but, i still consider the fact i've only won with a pressing defense to be a major shortcoming in comparison to OR/lostmyth, who have won with everything.


well, thats a wrap. if anybody has anything to add to the resumes of OR/lostmyth, i'd love to hear it, i've always found it very interesting to look at the top accomplishments and top coachs' records, even when i was still looking for my first NT round 1 win


Drunk or not, a very interesting and detailed analysis. I'd hate to see what it would have looked like had you been sober!! :^)

Quote: Originally Posted By jlay on 4/27/2010

Quote: Originally Posted By gillispie on 4/27/2010


oldresorter
you can't really say enough about this guy, probably the most respected HD coach of all. he's the only person to ever win 3 straight d1 titles, and with 27 or some obscene number of titles, he is definitely the leader there. he is also the most experienced coach of the 3, which is certainly a strength in its own right. his d3 w conn state program is legendary, probably the greatest d3 program of all time. at w conn state, he racked up 8 titles in a span of just 15 seasons, with a 2nd round appearance or better in all 20 seasons. and his d1 uconn program is easily in contention for greatest d1 program of all time. at uconn, OR has 8 championships, including a stretch of 5 titles in 8 years and 3 in a row. while he seems to have lost some interest of late as mentioned above, he still has a handful of titles in pretty recent history, and no doubt can still coach with the best of them. i think he has a title with every offense and defense as well, which says a lot about the breadth of his greatness.

Wronoj and I were talking about OR this morning. What amazes me, and others, about him is he does all this without always recruiting the top recruits. With his success and prestige he could get them but often passes and gets other players. He truly is the master in my book. No disrespect to others. I have had the pleasure of coaching against him in the ACC in Naismith for several seasons and have just had the opportunity to see what he does first hand. He has a great grasp of class balance, continuity, and understanding of player developement

Quote: Originally Posted By emy1013 on 4/27/2010
I'd also like to pat myself on the back here just a bit and say, that besides the FB (which I have never run, experimenting with it a bit at Tennessee in Allen), I've won titles running all three other offenses and all three defenses. Just tooting my own horn a bit.

I knew LM had done it, but I wonder if anyone else can make that claim? NT's won running all three different defenses and at least three of the four different offenses. Would be pretty cool if I was in a class by myself with LM!! I'm sure someone else has to have done it though......



i allways knew you were a tooter

Quote: Originally Posted By wronoj on 4/27/2010d1 dynasties aren't that rare, OD. Clone77 has 3 or 4 awesome dynasties at Iowa State across various worlds.

what wdkirby has done at Miss St in Naismith (which may have been OR's stepping stone to duke there, but it might have been Southern Miss) and kevthekidd at Minnesota have also been great 5-year runs.

There are similar other great d1 runs/dynasties in Wooden (tannermcc at Providence comes to mind), which is the only other world i'm in...

no doubt in my mind who the best are, but building a great d1 dynasty is certainly not limited to those 2.


we all definte "dynasty" differently. but i dont think anyone else has won three D1 NCs in a row. and i dont think anyone else can match ORs ten year run either.

but i could be wrong. i admit my experience is very limited and maybe i am unduly influenced by what i have witnessed directly.

however, i do try to keep an eye on other stuff going on across HD and i just dont think anyone has accomplished what OR has in tark.

perhaps i would need to use a word such as "uber-dyansty" to clarify what i think OR has accomplished.

the bottom line is that , to me, winning two titles in a row or going to four final4s in a 6 year span is very impressive... but it doesnt at all surprise me that it has been done. the fact that dyansties (by your definition) arent that rare is really my point exactly. Very impressive, special, but ......

what OR has done in tark borders on inconceivable.

when i look at these other dynasties, i think, "wow, with a break here or there, or if i had recruited a little harder or if i had gameplanned a little better, that could be me" and, i would think, dozens of hd coaches feel the same.

when i look at OR's uber-dynasty i think "is he cheating?" , "is WIS setting him up to dominate to shut up the coinflip complaints?", "is there a glitch that he and he alone has found?"

seriously... i have contemplated all those possibilties. in the end, i have concluded that OR is telling the truth when he says it is not one big trick, a whole collection of exploited small (sometimes tiny) advantages. but, as simple as that sounds, it is amazing to me that he has managed to gain so many small advantages so consistently.

bottom line, you are right, i slighted some great coaches by insinuating that there have been very few dynasties. but i think everyone would agree there has been only one "uber-dynasty"...no?