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mmt0315
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Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 6/08/2010
Quote: Originally posted by mmt0315 on 6/08/2010 Seble, has not offered an explanation. I'd love to hear why there was no schedule for beta testing, or why games wouldnt be simmed for weeks on end but suddenly without notice 10 games would be simmed in two days or why even though the test seemed to be set up for 5 seasons it was rushed out without completing two and so on. 1 Id like to know how he justifies charging customers to test the game. 2 He doesnt wanna answer thats his perogative, but I will keep demanding those answers in the meantime. 3

1 - At a guess, I'd say it was because he was the only one working on it. One person can't write new code essentially from scratch and consistently maintain a test server.

2 - I realize this idea has been floating around for a while now, and I'm probably guilty of propagating it too, but seriously -- what we're doing right now is nothing like doing testing. What happened at the beginning of the Allen/Smith season, where the first exhibition game was played and then scrubbed -- OK, sure, that's very much like a testing environment. But the two weeks since, no.

3 - You don't seem particularly interested in getting answers. You've already made up your mind that seble is a total fail and that HD is now crap.

Do you know how many tickets I send in to only receive generic responses that everything is working as intended? Or no response at all. And again, the justifications behind the beta testing are lacking. They failed because they were not run properly...keeping to a schedule for example is something simplistic which has nothing to do with what server they were on.
6/8/2010 4:32 PM
mmt0315
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Quote: Originally Posted By mniven on 6/08/2010
Quote: Originally Posted By mmt0315 on 6/08/2010
but I dont think anyone has the right to tell me or others like me who have had it what we can post. We are ****** and have every right to express that. Seble, has not offered an explanation. I'd love to hear why there was no schedule for beta testing, or why games wouldnt be simmed for weeks on end but suddenly without notice 10 games would be simmed in two days or why even though the test seemed to be set up for 5 seasons it was rushed out without completing two and so on. Id like to know how he justifies charging customers to test the game. He doesnt wanna answer thats his perogative, but I will keep demanding those answers in the meantime.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that you don't have the right to post. What I meant to imply was that your method (singling out the developer as a "failure") strikes me as immature and not likely to be taken seriously by the person you seem to be seeking answers from. If I were Seble, I wouldn't have even made it through the first post in this thread.

You can only ask nicely so many times before becoming fed up. Im not the only one to make these complaints, I also sent out tickets in a much nicer manner only to be shunned. As I said its his perogative to remain silent, as it mine to complain.
6/8/2010 4:34 PM
dalter
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Quote: Originally Posted By ll316 on 6/08/2010
Quote: Originally posted by mniven on 6/08/2010 What a helpful thread. Let's insult the one person who seems to be motivated to fix the engine. Are you sure you don't want to add a few expletives so this thread carries some more weight?
Trying to fix something he broke in the 1st place is kinda like a thief saying "Hey, I found $20 out of the $40 that was stolen!" isn't it
You're right. He should not continue to work on fixing it. That's a much better option.
6/8/2010 4:46 PM
antonsirius
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6/8/2010 4:49 PM
doomey
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6/8/2010 5:02 PM
doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By antonsirius on 6/08/2010
Quote: Originally posted by mmt0315 on 6/08/2010 Seble, has not offered an explanation. I'd love to hear why there was no schedule for beta testing, or why games wouldnt be simmed for weeks on end but suddenly without notice 10 games would be simmed in two days or why even though the test seemed to be set up for 5 seasons it was rushed out without completing two and so on. 1 Id like to know how he justifies charging customers to test the game. 2 He doesnt wanna answer thats his perogative, but I will keep demanding those answers in the meantime. 3

1 - At a guess, I'd say it was because he was the only one working on it. One person can't write new code essentially from scratch and consistently maintain a test server.

2 - I realize this idea has been floating around for a while now, and I'm probably guilty of propagating it too, but seriously -- what we're doing right now is nothing like doing testing. What happened at the beginning of the Allen/Smith season, where the first exhibition game was played and then scrubbed -- OK, sure, that's very much like a testing environment. But the two weeks since, no.

3 - You don't seem particularly interested in getting answers. You've already made up your mind that seble is a total fail and that HD is now crap
I don't know about that anton, sure there was no reboot, but they are tweaking the engine AS WE PLAY, and that is bit of a problem for me.
6/8/2010 5:05 PM
dahsdebater
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So doomey, you'd rather them NOT fix the problems that have arisen? It is unbelievably hypocritical for people to complain about problems with the engine and "continuing to pay for them" but also complain when they fix the problems.
6/8/2010 5:16 PM
kannc6
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Im with mmt on this. I have enjoyed the game for seasons. I was happy for years and had a few complaints, but nothing earthshaking about the old game system.
Thought FSS was a great idea, but potential detroyed practice plans and made the game recruiting dynasty.
Fast forward to Spring 2010
I don't want to be a drama queen, but good gracious HOW CAN YOU PEOPLE DEFEND THIS?
Almost everything with the NEW HD has been a bomb.
The Beta was a complete misfire. Scheduling was non-existant. I simply chose to drop out after a couple of months of non communication from Seble.
After announcing the new HD would be ready for March Madness, they delayed it.
Then when it was released, they botched the rollout royally and they have shown little reason to have faith that management will be competent in the future.
I hate to say this, but it really looks like Fox needs to look for another person to spearhead this project.
That said the game may be playable in a few months, but when my seasons run out I am gone.

6/8/2010 5:52 PM
dalter
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I agree that there are issues that need to be addressed, and I'm frustrated, too. But I can't believe that people are already slamming the door on an engine that's so new it hasn't even been rolled out yet in some worlds.
6/8/2010 6:08 PM
summerteeth
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for me, it's that the past has been repeated (i posted something similar to this earlier or in another thread):

the first potential implementation was botched and then fixed later. it's happening again. can't they learn from their mistakes? why should we being paying while they are fixing the big issues? it should have been resolved in the beta test in lieu of a hasty roll out. if seble is stuck doing it on his own, shame on Fox for not letting him have additional support.

i get that programs have bugs, they all do. but you cannot and should not roll out new engines/features when there are large mistakes. my fiancee is a software developer - if her team rolled out a new feature or update with major bugs, the management and lead developers would get severely reprimanded or fired, so they don't do it. they test their code like crazy. there's just not that level of accountability here. like i mentioned before, it could be Fox not allowing the resources and not seble. the closest we can get is to express our frustration on the forums and then quit if mad enough.
6/8/2010 6:17 PM
a_in_the_b
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6/8/2010 6:32 PM
furry_nipps
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6/8/2010 7:19 PM
doomey
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Quote: Originally Posted By dahsdebater on 6/08/2010
So doomey, you'd rather them NOT fix the problems that have arisen? It is unbelievably hypocritical for people to complain about problems with the engine and "continuing to pay for them" but also complain when they fix the problems.

Honestly, I'd rather they fix them before they roll it out. I cannot believe that none of this arose or would have arisen had beta lasted longer. As it stands some people benefited from pre-fix states and that isn't equitable. Almost rather run the entire season with them, then have differant parts of the season run on differant engine revisions.

And I don't believe it is at all hypocritical to expect a polished product when you pay for it and to complain when the fixes are done mid-game causing possible inequity.
6/8/2010 7:34 PM
4green2
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SO when a COmputer game comes out, do you demand a refund if it has a patch?
6/8/2010 7:39 PM
antonsirius
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Maybe it's just a matter of perspective, but I wouldn't call what we're dealing with right now in the engine "bugs".

Game results aren't being lost in the aether. We aren't seeing scores of 326 to -8. When you schedule another school for next season, it goes in the correct slot in your non-con schedule. When you recruit a player, you get the results you selected and paid for, for the correct price. When you change a setting or a distribution number, the page doesn't crash. Those would be bugs.

Engine settings that determine, for instance, what the cost in fatigue is for running FCP, or the odds of making a three point shot with all else being equal... those aren't bugs. They're variables to be tweaked until the engine outputs are within the parameters the developers want them.
6/8/2010 7:43 PM
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