Smith Mid-Major update Topic

metsmax
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Tark - after 19 games - 12 mid majors in the top 35 in Tark - is that too many, too few or just right?

edited to add another world:

Naismith - after 16 games - 12 mid majors in top 35 in Naismith ......hmmm, 12 of 35 in two worlds....

and another

Crum - in postseason - 11 of top 35 ranked teams are mid majors

Now this data isnt dispositive and one can argue that rankings are inaccurate, but then again maybe status in the sweet 16 has a greater random element than does ranking for a season....do numbers like this suggest a broken system?  no....might it still need a fix? yes
10/12/2010 6:15 PM (edited)
jeffdrayer
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Perhaps it would be instructive to look at theby far  most successful mid-major in RL in the last decade -- Gonazaga.  In the last 12 years, they've gone out in the NCAA tournament in the first round 3 times, 2nd round 4 times, sweet 16 4 times and elite eight once.  And they have 3 NBA draft picks.  That's the best mid-major ever.  So, I'm not sure what people expect here.  Is a record like that still possible in HD?  I think so.  Should it be happening for 5 different schools in every world?  Not according to RL.  Should it be happening to one school?  Only, according to RL, if they're the best mid-major ever.

Again, people can argue that they'd rather HD be different than RL.  But that's a different argument.  If we're in a game that is trying to mirror the world we live in, I kinda think HD's doing that.
10/12/2010 11:47 AM
antonsirius
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Posted by paul0613 on 10/11/2010 8:23:00 AM:
I can't wait to see how bad next year gets!
Clearly not the words of a whiny crybaby.
10/12/2010 6:18 PM
moy23
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Posted by antonsirius on 10/12/2010 6:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by paul0613 on 10/11/2010 8:23:00 AM:
I can't wait to see how bad next year gets!
Clearly not the words of a whiny crybaby.
I would just like to point out how much I enjoy your usage of the word 'clearly' in that statement.... and thats a Fact!
10/12/2010 6:23 PM
bscoresby
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Posted by moy23 on 10/12/2010 6:23:00 PM (view original):
Posted by antonsirius on 10/12/2010 6:18:00 PM (view original):
Posted by paul0613 on 10/11/2010 8:23:00 AM:
I can't wait to see how bad next year gets!
Clearly not the words of a whiny crybaby.
I would just like to point out how much I enjoy your usage of the word 'clearly' in that statement.... and thats a Fact!
Fact, or "forum fact?"
10/12/2010 7:22 PM
daalter
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Posted by moy23 on 10/12/2010 9:26:00 AM (view original):
Posted by paul0613 on 10/12/2010 8:39:00 AM (view original):
I am not an expert by any means, but we all have the same limited experience with the new engine and new recruits.  So lets look at the participants in the discussion:

Mamxet - 3 BCS teams
Sully - 2 BCS teams
Atrain - 2 seasons of D1 experience
Moy - 1 BCS team
Dahsdebater - 0 D1 experience

So since the implementation of new recruits, how can any of you argue the process when you don't have to go through it? 
Did any of you lose a 590 rated player to a C+ BCS school?
To answer your question - I'm considering the source. CLEARLY daalt and you are proven crybabies - FACT! (<--did that for daalt). all you do is whine when things get tough. Instead of adapting to the new situation you guys complain and try to get the situation to adapt to you. Since day 1 you and daalt have complained about this new recruit generation process.... without giving it a chance. I suggest you take the effort you put into complaining and use it for something useful... like recruiting ;)
Moy, I know you're having some fun with me and tweaking me a bit, but if you think my motivations are in the tiniest bit selfish or driven by an inability to adapt, then it's worth pointing out the rpi's of my three teams in the nine full seasons I've played since the change:

1 (NT), 5, 1, 29, 1, 3, 1, 1, 1 (NT).

So if your argument is that I'm just whining because I haven't been able to adapt, I think you need to come up with a new argument. If I was operating with even a shred of selfishness, I'd be championing the changes, because clearly they have agreed with me.

In reality, I'm coming from a place of not wanting to see the game get f'd up. I am watching DI Allen get sodomized before my very eyes. The only thing I care about here is trying to make sure HD is the best it can be and doesn't get screwed up. Period.

10/12/2010 9:17 PM (edited)
daalter
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Posted by jeffdrayer on 10/12/2010 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Perhaps it would be instructive to look at theby far  most successful mid-major in RL in the last decade -- Gonazaga.  In the last 12 years, they've gone out in the NCAA tournament in the first round 3 times, 2nd round 4 times, sweet 16 4 times and elite eight once.  And they have 3 NBA draft picks.  That's the best mid-major ever.  So, I'm not sure what people expect here.  Is a record like that still possible in HD?  I think so.  Should it be happening for 5 different schools in every world?  Not according to RL.  Should it be happening to one school?  Only, according to RL, if they're the best mid-major ever.

Again, people can argue that they'd rather HD be different than RL.  But that's a different argument.  If we're in a game that is trying to mirror the world we live in, I kinda think HD's doing that.
If we are trying to mirror real life more closely, then I don't think there is any question that the changes were a significant step in that direction. FACT. (You like that, moy?)

But hey, if that's really the ultimate goal here, I have a laundry list of other items that need to be overhauled ASAP.

The reality is that the basic structure is supposed to have a clear resemblance to and connection w. real life college basketball. But many, many of the details are totally unlike real life, and for very good reason: they simply don't work well in the context of HD.

And mirroring real life in this way -- taking the air out of the mid majors' tires and instilling the notion that they can no longer compete like they once did -- is absolute death for HD DI.
10/12/2010 9:16 PM
bscoresby
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Posted by daalter on 10/12/2010 9:16:00 PM (view original):
Posted by jeffdrayer on 10/12/2010 11:47:00 AM (view original):
Perhaps it would be instructive to look at theby far  most successful mid-major in RL in the last decade -- Gonazaga.  In the last 12 years, they've gone out in the NCAA tournament in the first round 3 times, 2nd round 4 times, sweet 16 4 times and elite eight once.  And they have 3 NBA draft picks.  That's the best mid-major ever.  So, I'm not sure what people expect here.  Is a record like that still possible in HD?  I think so.  Should it be happening for 5 different schools in every world?  Not according to RL.  Should it be happening to one school?  Only, according to RL, if they're the best mid-major ever.

Again, people can argue that they'd rather HD be different than RL.  But that's a different argument.  If we're in a game that is trying to mirror the world we live in, I kinda think HD's doing that.
If we are trying to mirror real life more closely, then I don't think there is any question that the changes were a significant step in that direction. FACT. (You like that, moy?)

But hey, if that's really the ultimate goal here, I have a laundry list of other items that need to be overhauled ASAP.

The reality is that the basic structure is supposed to have a clear resemblance to and connection w. real life college basketball. But many, many of the details are totally unlike real life, and for very good reason: they simply don't work well in the context of HD.

And mirroring real life in this way -- taking the air out of the mid majors' tires and instilling the notion that they can no longer compete like they once did -- is absolute death for HD DI.
FACT or "forum fact?"
10/12/2010 11:41 PM
daalter
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The "FACT" was a joke just meant for moy.

But on a serious note, do you disagree with that statement -- that this change more closely mimics real life? Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen a single person contend that it doesn't. I think what's at issue isn't whether it mimics real life, but whether that is a good or bad thing in this instance.
10/13/2010 12:08 AM
moy23
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Posted by daalter on 10/13/2010 12:08:00 AM (view original):
The "FACT" was a joke just meant for moy.

But on a serious note, do you disagree with that statement -- that this change more closely mimics real life? Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't seen a single person contend that it doesn't. I think what's at issue isn't whether it mimics real life, but whether that is a good or bad thing in this instance.
I did notice that 'fact'. I was looking around for 'clearly' but I couldn't seem to find it in that post ;)


I've 'clearly' voiced my opinion on the "midmajor issue and is it good for hd" in the past.... I think I'll just see what others have to say.
10/13/2010 1:35 AM
alblack56
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In Iba,  #1 seed St. Bonaventure and #10 seed Wyoming have made the Elite Eight.   St. Bonnie defeated Kentucky and   Wyoming beat #3 Minnesota. Xavier almost made it a 3-some, falling 83-82 to #3 seed Auburn.

In real life, 3 of the last 10 Elite Eights were exclusive BCS tournaments.  

If you don't include  Memphis, Xavier and Utah (major programs from outside the BCS), only 5 mid-majors have made the Elite Eight in the last 10 years.

2010-  Butler
2009- NONE
2008- Davidson, Memphis, Xavier
2007- Memphis
2006- Memphis, George Mason
2005- Utah
2004- St. Joseph, Xavier
2003-  NONE
2002-  Kent St.
2001-  NONE

 'Hoops Dynasty' is a better game if the smaller schools are competitive with the BCS schools. 
 

10/13/2010 5:10 AM (edited)
bscoresby
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Updating this thread, Wyoming lost in the semifinals to 7 seed LSU.  St. Bonaventure beat UConn. Half of the final four were "mid majors", although the argument can be that the A10 in Iba is a high major conference.

I learned several things about how you can be successful winning at a "mid major" over the last 4 years.  I believe that it is possible to take a midmajor and turn it into a team that will make deep runs into the NT.
10/15/2010 9:04 AM
namshub
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7 out of final 32 in Naismith from non-BCS schools.
10/15/2010 10:40 AM
namshub
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The one thing i don't see posted often, if at all, in this debate is the number of human coaches actually coaching at non-bcs schools versus simai coaches who coach a large portion of the mid-majors.  Most of the Big 6 have human coaches versus the other conferences which gives those conferences a distinct advantage which is not programmed into the game so far as gameplay, recruiting money etc. 

Just a thought.  By the way, I think the numbers in the NT are pretty much right where they should be at this point.

10/15/2010 10:44 AM
angmar
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Posted by namshub on 10/15/2010 10:40:00 AM (view original):
7 out of final 32 in Naismith from non-BCS schools.
You lost me somewhere Nam.  I'm in Naismith and we're only halfway through conference play.  Are these last season's numbers, or maybe just a typo concerning the world?
10/15/2010 4:33 PM
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