Posted by bigal888 on 10/18/2010 9:38:00 PM (view original):
If you wanted a soft cap, you could even say that every dollar spent on prospect payroll above $20 million counts twice and we would then have almost the exact same situation we have now.

I think this saves those people that budgeted a bunch for FA and missed out.  They can then refocus up to $20 mil into their future and not be screwed (and the double tax after $20 mil).  I don't think you should be penalized because you went aggressive into free agency and ended up losing out here and there.  At least have the opportunity to build something.  You could even add the double tax to any move FROM prospects TO player payroll.

Why do this when we can already do this?   It doesn't appear that you're making any changes.

the big change in that scenario would allow moving unspent coach payroll (which can be maxed at $15 mil) and a one time move of any unused player payroll into prospect money - up to $20 mil - all at a straight 1 to 1 transfer.   That's where I see the most need for improvement.  Just because you budgeted $1 million too much in coach hiring doesn't mean you need to get screwed out of that money.  I think at the beginning of the year you should be able to move that into player payroll or even prospects to a limit.

Do I think you should be able to have $50 million in prospect payroll? Not at all.  But I do think $20 million in prospect money is a reasonable number that everyone can have a shot at reaching without being taxed.  After $20 million, make it the same as what we have now and make it a 2 for 1 transfer.

Naw, part of the joy of this game is it's not easy.

That makes it easier. If you budget "incorrectly", you should have it shoved up your pooper, one way or another.

While I don't go above 20 prospect, I have no problem with people shoving money over there, mainly because I don't think I've ever seen them win.

It happens.

I imagine it does.

But, when someone is working with a $160M cap instead of $185M like the rest of the league because they keep shoving $50M into prospect, you tell me how often you expect them to win. One, maybe 2 year window where the stars have to align before they all hit arb, or lightning has to strike a gaggle of 327K rookies.

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/18/2010 3:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by deanod on 10/18/2010 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Also, teams with $30M cap space are limited to $35M prospect payroll instead of $50M.  If it's 1 for 1, that's a lot of extra incentive to tank, and makes it nearly impossible for good teams to re-stock their farm system with $20M for IFA's, since tankers can outbid them twice.

Then set minimums (as Mike said) and maximums.  I don't care.

But let's say I have $20mil in my prospect budget and $90 in my player payroll, and I want to make a trade for a player at the deadline who is a salary dump for someone else. I have $4mil in player payroll left and he's a $7mil player.  I shouldn't have to pay $6mil in order to move $3mil from prospect to player. 

Yes you should. Sorry no dumbing down!!

Posted by moosep on 10/19/2010 10:35:00 AM (view original):

Posted by Jtpsops on 10/18/2010 3:12:00 PM (view original):

Posted by deanod on 10/18/2010 2:16:00 PM (view original):
Also, teams with $30M cap space are limited to $35M prospect payroll instead of $50M.  If it's 1 for 1, that's a lot of extra incentive to tank, and makes it nearly impossible for good teams to re-stock their farm system with $20M for IFA's, since tankers can outbid them twice.

Then set minimums (as Mike said) and maximums.  I don't care.

But let's say I have $20mil in my prospect budget and $90 in my player payroll, and I want to make a trade for a player at the deadline who is a salary dump for someone else. I have $4mil in player payroll left and he's a $7mil player.  I shouldn't have to pay $6mil in order to move $3mil from prospect to player. 

Yes you should. Sorry no dumbing down!!

jtp's 'argument" here just points out the precise reason why the 50% tax is in place, and why it should remain in place.

He has $4m and wants a $7m player.  He's complaining that he cannot acquire the $7m player with his remaining $4m budget without incurring a penalty.

Seriously.  How can one rationally attempt to make that argument?

It's this generation. They want it all on a silver platter.

Why, in my day...

jtpop's sucks at arguing his point.   I'll do it for him.

ADV, college, high school, IFA, medical and training are "set" budgets pre-determined at the beginning of the season.  They cannot be changed because their results take effect on Day 1.    Coaching, payroll and prospect budgets are essentially cash budgets that are nothing until applied.   It's not unusual for a team to expect a coach to ask for 3m then end up getting him for less.   The same can be applied to free agents.   Once coach hiring and free agency is over, and they take place much later than Day 1, it's possible for a team to have an excess of cash.  There's really no reason one shouldn't be able to apply this cash to another category without penalty.

Apply the logic to a trip to the movies.  You budget $20 for tickets, $10 for drinks, $6 for popcorn, $4 for Jujubees and pocket a pair of twenties as you walk out the door.   Much to your horror, the theater quit carrying Jujubees right after your last trip to the movies(Rambo 2).  Your date insists upon some candy.  Goobers are $4.  You say "Gimme a box of Goobers".    Sadly, there's a 50% penalty for switching candies and you only have $2 for Goobers.   Your date, angry at your poor planning, throws the drink and popcorn on the ground then storms out.  You're forced to watch Hannah Montana's new movie alone.    All because you didn't know that the theater stop carrying Jujubees.

So the point of your example is: jtpop's takes his dates to Hannah Montana movies?

I'm almost certain jtpop's only date was his senior prom.    His aunt made his cousin go with him.

Nonetheless, it's silly to claim that coach/prospect/payroll are the same as the other budget items.    They aren't.    They are essentially unspent cash.    

But then you get the $3M payroll, $100 in prospect scenario.

Your argument is capitalistic in nature and applies to the real MLB. It would have detremental application in HBD.

To use your argument; you want to take the chick to the movies, so you ask her out, but someone else moved $80 from mom's account into his, and not only already asked her out, but already bought her dinner and banged her twice.

As I said earlier, you put floors and ceilings on these three.   I figured it out a long time ago so I'm just using memory but to field a complete team at each level, at the minimums, you need 10m+.    I'd set payroll floor at 30m with no ceiling.   I'd set coaching and prospect at 6/30m.   You'd never need 30m for coaching, I wouldn't think, but that's just for simplicity's sake.

 

Eh, I can see it, just like the current way better.

I would lift or relax the max $4m movement year to year in the budget. I've felt that was a touch harsh.