Posted by isack24 on 2/23/2011 2:17:00 PM (view original):
And as for refuting the notion that reb is the only rating that matters for rebounding, take a look at zbrent's team, which lacks reb (only one guy over 66), but outrebounds their opponents by about 1000 per game, including a significantly better offensive rebounding percentage.  That has to be a product of his team ath, because his reb is really mediocre.

But the one guy over 66 is at 99 reb, and he's grabbing 8.4 rpg with only 32 ath. 

Look at this team and compare the 2 Cs. One with 96 ath, 88 reb, other one with 51ath, 99 reb. If ath matters so much in reb, then wouldn't you expect the 96 ath/88reb guy to be better on the boards?

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=4566

Posted by zbrent716 on 2/23/2011 2:23:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 2/23/2011 2:17:00 PM (view original):
And as for refuting the notion that reb is the only rating that matters for rebounding, take a look at zbrent's team, which lacks reb (only one guy over 66), but outrebounds their opponents by about 1000 per game, including a significantly better offensive rebounding percentage.  That has to be a product of his team ath, because his reb is really mediocre.

Geez, way to make it personal. We know we lack the talent, but we make up for it in effort!  

I knew I forgot to recruit for hustle!

No disrespect, your team is sick defensively, and it's not too surprising that you outrebound teams when they miss so many more shots.  A little surprising that your offensive rebounding percentage is so much better, but your ath is so good that I buy it.  But it also means that ath affects rebounding :)

Plus, I've spent 15 seasons at Hamline in Wooden, and the best I've done is a final four.  So, maybe there's some subconscious bitterness!

Posted by tianyi7886 on 2/23/2011 2:31:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 2/23/2011 2:17:00 PM (view original):
And as for refuting the notion that reb is the only rating that matters for rebounding, take a look at zbrent's team, which lacks reb (only one guy over 66), but outrebounds their opponents by about 1000 per game, including a significantly better offensive rebounding percentage.  That has to be a product of his team ath, because his reb is really mediocre.

But the one guy over 66 is at 99 reb, and he's grabbing 8.4 rpg with only 32 ath. 

Look at this team and compare the 2 Cs. One with 96 ath, 88 reb, other one with 51ath, 99 reb. If ath matters so much in reb, then wouldn't you expect the 96 ath/88reb guy to be better on the boards?

http://whatifsports.com/hd/TeamProfile/Ratings.aspx?tid=4566

That's 8 of his team's 37 rebounds per game.  That's not all that much.

Two things: (1) I never said ath played that big of a role, only that it clearly plays a role; and (2) I don't expect a D2 player with 88 reb on a stacked rebounding team to ever get 8 or 9 rebounds per game.  If it happens, great, but I have a ton of reb on my D2 teams (usually) and rarely end up with anyone over 7.  I do, however, end up with four or five over 6 per game, which makes sense.

But look at the differential between the 2 guys on the D2 team. The 45 ath edge didn't even make up for 11 reb edge the other guy had. If anything, it looks like the 45 ath edge didn't matter at all on the boards. 

Plus, Jackson plays PF, and even though it's only a forum fact, I think it's pretty clear that centers outrebound PFs, even with the same ratings.

ugly, one thing that may have had a big impact on that game in particular is how much more important rebounding is after the latest update.  While your very strong ATH ratings clearly help you in rebounding, he had you beat in REB starter-v-starter at every position on the floor except for PG.  Given that seble has added an individual matchup component to rebounding that probably hurt you quite a bit in that game.

Posted by isack24 on 2/23/2011 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Plus, Jackson plays PF, and even though it's only a forum fact, I think it's pretty clear that centers outrebound PFs, even with the same ratings.

Idk if that's true or not because my personal preference is to put my better reb player at C. But even if that's true, with a 45ath edge, the player is still rebounding 25% less than the player with 11 more reb.

I agree with you that ath plays a role in grabbing boards, but the main determinant of how a player rebounds is the reb category. I remember posting a D3 player with 100 reb and asked how dominant he will be on the boards. People told me he will only be mediocre bc his ath is 26, probably good for 8 rpg max. The guy actually went for 10+ that season with around 24mpg and then 9rpg the following year, with around 21mpg. He also shot near .600 for his last 2 seasons on decent volume, with 90+ LP despite having only 26 ath and 30 ath when he graduated. 

maybe so mduncan. it would've been nice to have beta tested these changes. still surprised no one has commented about the shocking results of the stanford game. i know its one game, but it shouldn't be swept under the rug like its no big deal. i ran a defense my team doesn't know and had my best defensive game.....thats alarming.

Posted by tianyi7886 on 2/23/2011 2:45:00 PM (view original):

Posted by isack24 on 2/23/2011 2:37:00 PM (view original):
Plus, Jackson plays PF, and even though it's only a forum fact, I think it's pretty clear that centers outrebound PFs, even with the same ratings.

Idk if that's true or not because my personal preference is to put my better reb player at C. But even if that's true, with a 45ath edge, the player is still rebounding 25% less than the player with 11 more reb.

I agree with you that ath plays a role in grabbing boards, but the main determinant of how a player rebounds is the reb category. I remember posting a D3 player with 100 reb and asked how dominant he will be on the boards. People told me he will only be mediocre bc his ath is 26, probably good for 8 rpg max. The guy actually went for 10+ that season with around 24mpg and then 9rpg the following year, with around 21mpg. He also shot near .600 for his last 2 seasons on decent volume, with 90+ LP despite having only 26 ath and 30 ath when he graduated. 

No doubt.  I actually think ath used to play a bigger role.

The C I'm talking about for my team is from 4 or 5 seasons back, before all these updates. 

Right, I remember the post.  I wasn't talking about that guy in particular, only that I think the reb rating has been made more relevant through the update.

Posted by isack24 on 2/23/2011 3:04:00 PM (view original):
Right, I remember the post.  I wasn't talking about that guy in particular, only that I think the reb rating has been made more relevant through the update.

I think the 1on1 matchups at each position has something to do with it. 

Absolutely.  Frankly, I'm a big fan of how that has worked so far.

1v1 matchups shouldnt affect rebounding in zone quite as much...

Posted by mduncanhogs on 2/23/2011 2:43:00 PM (view original):
ugly, one thing that may have had a big impact on that game in particular is how much more important rebounding is after the latest update.  While your very strong ATH ratings clearly help you in rebounding, he had you beat in REB starter-v-starter at every position on the floor except for PG.  Given that seble has added an individual matchup component to rebounding that probably hurt you quite a bit in that game.

+1