At this point, it's too late for a rollback, and it never was expected once they made the change to 3.0 anyway. There's not much dissension these days because those who disliked the update left. Unfortunately, the population numbers show which was the right move as 3.0 never should have come if it was not going to have continued support.

I don't blame the move to push forward and make changes, but it felt like the entire time he listened to a few coaches who were meh at best and ignored a lot of people who suggested alternative changes.

The worst change was making the game D1-focused. You had a game that worked on all levels (see prior populations for evidence). You now have a game that is D1 focused and the population shows it. In no reality is less players better.

At this point, I've cut down some teams and stick around with my last 2 mostly because they pay for themselves, but 90% of the time I'm on autopilot like many others.

Posted by R0pey on 11/11/2023 9:06:00 PM (view original):

Posted by Basketts on 11/11/2023 2:39:00 PM (view original):

Posted by R0pey on 11/10/2023 3:44:00 PM (view original):
yea we've heard that response the entire time lol its either make something up or you just say leave.

and surprise it's always the coaches who have no idea how to play the game saying it because they suck and dont understand the game let alone the capacity to look at basic math and see numbers down lmao.

"lots of us still have fun"

another hilarious response because you responded directly to seeing numbers saying people are literally not having fun and leaving still lololol

Rolling back to WIS circa 2016 isn't going to happen so what are you even trying to accomplish bashing coaches who are having fun? I guess if we did roll back maybe you could use that exploit that got you banned.

the exploit that got me banned? you don't even know who you are talking to lmao my only ban was from after the update for calling seble names and asking him to ban me lmao and im wear that one proudly nothing to do with gameplay lolol so keep dreaming

and where did i say to roll it back to 2016. please enlighten me. wow 2/2 so far for making stuff up

so yea don't even know who you are talking to and putting made up words in my mouth. at least when i bash coaches im saying things that make sense and are correct and verifiably correct instead of just spouting random **** i guess

Yeah, you're right. I did get you confused with the dude who figured out how to manipulate recruiting around that time. You getting banned for being a dick checks out though.

Never denied i wasn't

That's fair lol

Yeah, Wizard or Wizard17 was the guy that manipulated a Work Ethic bug by redshirting and non-redshirting each of his players around 250 times. His players' WE's would go from 5 to 100 thru this bug.

R0pey, aka, the0nlysis, simply told Seble, me, and a bunch of others to s--k his d--k repeatedly during the 3.0 process. But R0pey to his credit helped provide advice to me over the years which recently helped me win my only National Championship.

For those who werent around, from my memory, the main change in 3.0 is recruiting.

*In my opinion*, i think 3.0 is way better.

Version 2.0 was like Gridiron Dynasty (not sure if GD recently changed), where you have to interpret responses from the recruit, and you could keep unused money year to year.

Teams at the top could (and did) back up a dump truck onto a 5-star recruit's house, unload 120 home visits and 40 campus visits, and were guaranteed signing the guy.

True a-holes would poach-- "arrghhh, dont call it poaching!!!"-- because no actions needed to be unlocked, they would show up at the specific signing hour (there were no Early, End-of-Period-One, Whatever, nor Late preferences indicated) and easily take who they wanted... think of courting a recruit at his house, spending strategically towards him with your modest resources... then imagine UCLA at signing hour pulling up with 72 Mayflower trucks filled with gold ingots and just dumping the load on the house... something like that.

And the sense of entitlement of these clowns... like, if someone dared get mad at the process, the entitled hyenas would scream... "we've been playing HD since the beginning and earned this spot on the UNC mountain!! Wait your turn newbie !!"...

Today, at least if say UCLA hasnt put the effort into a recruit, a lesser prestige team who has given a recruit consistent attention points and resources can fend off UCLA. This was impossible in 2.0. Big dogs would "select" their elite recruits like at a buffet line.

Also, scouting and recruiting had one postseason period of maybe 5 days.

Also, in-conference collusion was a problem, because each team got extra money depending on if the made the NT, and for each round they advanced. So not "poaching" from teams in your own conference was in your interest.

So 3.0 introduced:
- two recruiting sessions.
- four signing preferences.
- dividing up scouting money from recruiting money.
- unlocking actions via attention points.
- limited home visits to 20 and campus visits to one.
- a sensible Considering List to allow people to have a sense of which schools were pursuing which recruits.
- 6 hour cycles, instead of 3 hour cycles.
- eliminated teams colluding with conference-mates.

So, again, thinking back, i never understood the absolute complete anger at 3.0... there was a great group that adjusted things during Beta testing-- for example, actions initially were happening in real time, so people were doing things at 7:59pm in poaching attempts. A group of say 6 to 8 veterans took the time to improve things (i was on the fringes). And some of those entitled humans left dramatically.

My first world was Crum... Season 63... from the start i enjoyed the game, but i noticed all these flaws i've described and thought they were stupid... by Crum Season 82 or 83, while still believing these flaws sucked, i luckily was able to climb and land my dream job at Providence, and built a nice program, and was in a position to benefit from the 2.0 flaws.

In like Crum Season 94 or so (?), the 3.0 version was introduced. Though i was in a position to benefit from the flaws, i totally still agreed that the game, especially recruiting, needed to change in big ways, and supported 3.0 and i still think it's a good system, way better than 2.0.

Ok i've talked too long.

As far as World Populations... is there a way to go back and look at population totals? how many unique humans had teams?

Ok, humans having 3 or more teams in each world was way more common (under different usernames). At some point HD introduced a rule that humans couldnt have teams within 1000 miles. Something like that.

Someone even did a map, figuring out that a human could have up to 7 schools per world and be 1000 miles apart... like 1 Chaminade, 2 UC San Diego, 3 St Martins, 4 Tarleton, 5 PR Cayey, 6 Augustana SD, 7 Merrimack.

I mean, it was so common, that another rule was introduced that you couldnt schedule yourself in non-conference.

Yeah the last version of the game was terribly flawed. This one is a bit better. But the big problem, and what I didn't foresee (I don't think any users did) during the process, was that seble was on his way out the door as soon as the release happened. And the release was rushed; beta was about half as long as it should have been, the update had all sorts of bugs that needed fixes, and the guys who inherited the job were pretty clueless how to fix it. Stuff that probably should have been simple (like the considering list only showing 10 teams, so teams lower on the alphabet could hide out and snipe - not poach, lol - recruits last minute, just like before) took years to address.

Taking away rollover money and conference cash was necessary. Installing a system where 50.1 does not win a recruit 100% of the time was necessary. That old system was a bad, non-competitive system. But the implementation was not ideal, and the lack of support the game got afterward has been awful.

NPB, your analysis is oversimplified, leaves out details, and is a perfect example of why people hated the changes as Seble took the feedback of the minority over the majority which led to a significant population drop (roughly 35%). Simple changes would have fixed those issues and didn't require a mass overhaul of recruiting. Instead, we now have a tedious and convoluted recruiting cycle with random results that punishes people changing jobs. In its simplicity the old system allowed new users to get acclimated quickly. They just failed to promote the game. The experience you're stating is the opposite of my own and I've had more success under 3.0.

One of the biggest issues you addressed was something like carryover money and conference money. Those were easily solvable by just removing those functions. The conference money just encouraged people to want to create strong conferences. We could dump the money reward for the conference and increase the impact of conference prestige to replace it and make it relevant to recruiting. Carryover money I fully supported the removal of.

It didn't help with collusion in any way. The same stuff can still happen. If anything it would be worse. With limited resources, I'd rather not fight them for a player when I have multiple openings and have received messages in the past inquiring about my interest in players. The 1000-mile requirement was already in place long before 3.0 and unless they actively monitor it or someone reports it, they typically don't find someone within the 1000-mile limit. It was only more common because there were more people playing. I doubt you guys have any clue how many people have multiple IDs in a world.

The previous recruiting cycle length was better IMO, although I agree the windows should have been longer. I enjoyed the "it's recruiting time" feel of it. The current season-long cycle is annoying and drags on too long. Even worse, it guarantees when you take over a new team, the first season is a waste of time since you have no opportunity to recruit good players in cycle 2.

Poaching for what it's worth is still just the same now as before. Wait to see someone in multiple battles and jump on the recruit knowing they have limited resources to distribute, so no change. They just dump 15-20 HV right before signing knowing you are tight on distributing. Even worse is I can use the maximum allowable resources on a recruit and still lose to someone who used less thanks to Dice Roll Dynasty!

Worst of all, 3.0 destroyed what was a thriving D2 and D3 which is where new players join the game. Instead they now join empty worlds where they can pay to feel like they are playing alone and learn a non user friendly recruiting system on their own.

To each their own on the opinion of the changes, but the end result proved that it was not the right choice. The only thing that is going to save this game now is actually promoting it to bring in new blood.

the old system was competitive and more realistic. you guys just sucked at the game (and still suck).

the beta was a joke. seble let a bunch of loser coaches who cant make the NT at D1 take jobs like Kansas in the beta and obviously have no idea what they were doing and it barely gave us any info and was nothing more than making sure there was no game breaking bugs like tw being able to sign a 5 star at D2 because seble wasn't smart enough to manage the division AP weights.

the old system could've been fixed with extremely minor changes without completely uphending the entire system and killing d2/d3 and populations. but again a bunch of coaches mad they sucked at this game got what they wanted. an easier game and less competition.

still love this is a thing in 2023.

but in the end numbers don't lie so whatever made up facts and feelings you want to say i just point to the world populations.

Posted by R0pey on 11/13/2023 8:12:00 AM (view original):
the old system was competitive and more realistic. you guys just sucked at the game (and still suck).

the beta was a joke. seble let a bunch of loser coaches who cant make the NT at D1 take jobs like Kansas in the beta and obviously have no idea what they were doing and it barely gave us any info and was nothing more than making sure there was no game breaking bugs like tw being able to sign a 5 star at D2 because seble wasn't smart enough to manage the division AP weights.

the old system could've been fixed with extremely minor changes without completely uphending the entire system and killing d2/d3 and populations. but again a bunch of coaches mad they sucked at this game got what they wanted. an easier game and less competition.

still love this is a thing in 2023.

but in the end numbers don't lie so whatever made up facts and feelings you want to say i just point to the world populations.

I don't care what the world populations are compared to seven years ago.

It's a fun game now.

Yep

Posted by R0pey on 11/13/2023 8:12:00 AM (view original):
the old system was competitive and more realistic. you guys just sucked at the game (and still suck).

the beta was a joke. seble let a bunch of loser coaches who cant make the NT at D1 take jobs like Kansas in the beta and obviously have no idea what they were doing and it barely gave us any info and was nothing more than making sure there was no game breaking bugs like tw being able to sign a 5 star at D2 because seble wasn't smart enough to manage the division AP weights.

the old system could've been fixed with extremely minor changes without completely uphending the entire system and killing d2/d3 and populations. but again a bunch of coaches mad they sucked at this game got what they wanted. an easier game and less competition.

still love this is a thing in 2023.

but in the end numbers don't lie so whatever made up facts and feelings you want to say i just point to the world populations.

The guys who hated the main thrust of 3.0 - widening the prestige window within which teams could reasonably battle for recruits - didn't want their process upset. They didn't want to deal with obstacles, with disruptions, with new challengers they never had to worry about. They wanted their stable hierarchy, and consistent credit supply. The last system specifically discouraged anyone from challenging for elite recruits if they thought maybe an A+ team with a significant warchest might want him. *That is not competitive*. The way to achieve upward mobility was to track what everyone was doing, and try to snipe each other by piling on during the 2-5AM cycles. Or, you know, collude with friends or your own multiple IDs.

Neither system is very realistic, because as I've said, it's not really designed to be a college basketball simulation. I don't want to make TheR0peyist pull out a thesaurus, so I'll just leave it at that.

The current version is much more fun than the last version. Everyone (including seble) knew there would be attrition after the launch. It was always going to be a long game for getting numbers back up. That's why it was so ridiculous when the launch was rushed and the game was left with virtually no support for a significant amount of time immediately after. That essentially guaranteed a long recovery.

I’m still hanging on to my love of the game, but I definitely go through phases where I’m close to quitting. Recruiting at D3 is tough, but D3 is my favorite level so I trudge on. I think the introduction of making D1 players available to all 3 levels was a mistake, but I understand the high-risk, high-reward that comes with it. You can’t win at D3 with D3 players, and when you have some D1 schools reaching down into the D2 pool, it’s a scramble. There are definitely more qualified and knowledgeable Coaches out there to suggest the needed tweaks and improvements to the game. Hopefully we can salvage the game and have it move forward.

Posted by p6453 on 11/14/2023 8:32:00 AM (view original):
I’m still hanging on to my love of the game, but I definitely go through phases where I’m close to quitting. Recruiting at D3 is tough, but D3 is my favorite level so I trudge on. I think the introduction of making D1 players available to all 3 levels was a mistake, but I understand the high-risk, high-reward that comes with it. You can’t win at D3 with D3 players, and when you have some D1 schools reaching down into the D2 pool, it’s a scramble. There are definitely more qualified and knowledgeable Coaches out there to suggest the needed tweaks and improvements to the game. Hopefully we can salvage the game and have it move forward.

The idea that any meaningful improvements will be made is really a pipe dream at this point, I'm afraid, which is why I'm on the side of yes, it's a zombie. The only hope for that is the site being sold to a developer who wants to *develop* and not just make some passive income. Outside of that, we're just waiting for someone like Sports Interactive to take a shot at a college basketball game.

And when they do, somehow I don't foresee 30 home visits at 5AM during the 3-day offseason recruiting session being part of the process.

"we knew we were going to crater the populations that would take 7+ years to still not even achieve."

yea im sure that was the entire point of the update.

make less money and continue to make less money. it honestly amazes me how you can be so ridiculous still after all this time. thankfully i had forgotten you had the brain of a rotten tomato sitting in the sun for weeks.

again if the game was more "fun" more people would play it but they don't a better product is the one that has more users and makes more money surprisingly this one does not.

"this game is fun" a coach who will quit soon because looking at his coaching record is pretty trash at the game and not good enough to experience why the game sucks he's just enjoying losing in his honeymoon phase.

. im not getting entagled with your single digit IQ postings anymore or any other player that sucks at this game. numbers don't lie update sucks and still sucks and its embarrassing reading your posts defending it like a mouth breather. hopefully someone shoots me if i bother responding here again