Posted by gomiami1972 on 7/4/2018 8:25:00 PM (view original):

Posted by DougOut on 7/4/2018 3:50:00 PM (view original):
Miami, please forgive me. I'm a little slow.

My understanding of private production is Hershey Chocolate inc. Ford Motor co.
My understanding of public production is charity and taxes.

Investment is a totally different matter. It is both governmental and private. As citizens of a sovereign nation, we invest and consider ourselves as partial owners or beneficiaries of our limited term investment.

Our history of production and investment is one of improvement and advancement across the board.

I'm sorry if I didn't get your meaning. Please don't take it the wrong way. I'm sure we're pretty much on the same page.

HAPPY BELATED 4TH!

Hey Doug,

First, I'm neither a socialist nor a social democrat. Having an academic background in economics, I can speak intelligently about classic Socialism. However, I had to look up what Social Democracy was and will probably be assaulted (and rightfully so) by social democrats about my ignorance.

Means of production refers to physical inputs and outputs...so raw material inputs such as metals, land, etc. being turned into economic value through outputs such as factories, farms, foundries, etc. Money (financial/investment capital) and people (human capital) are not considered in the equation.

Market Socialism requires the means of production to be either state owned or collectively owned by the masses. Read Karl Marx.

Social democrats, I think, do not believe in this type of system. Rather, social democrats prefer a mixed economy where many sectors will remain in private hands and others, like utilities, will be public (the USA is effectively a mixed economy already) but places a type of morality on capitalism so that the economic value generated by the outputs are used for the betterment of society as a whole rather than just the betterment of the private owners of those production means. If I'm preaching, I apologize.

...and yes, more times than not, you are I are on the same philosophical page. Have a great 4th of July evening and never forget what those fireworks symbolize.

Your research paid off!

That's pretty much correct.

Gomiami,

you just thoroughly offended every marxist by comparing Marxism to socialism. I have found out that is no-no.

Posted by DoctorKz on 7/4/2018 1:56:00 PM (view original):
What Socialists propose would place a huge burden on taxpayers.

Most Americans want choices in Healthcare. They don't want to be waiting months for surgeries, or to be told that Grandma is too old or not a worthy candidate for care. They don't want the government making those decisions. Rationed Healthcare sucks.

Free education? Once again, there is a price. Do the math.

That is true.
You have two options to pay for both free healthcare AND free education, which at max cost 100 bn dollars over 10 years.

1: Increase the top 1% of people's taxes slightly.

2: Cut the military budget by 10 bn

Where are your numbers coming from relating to the costs of healthcare and education. I'm not saying you're wrong, but they seam drastically low.

Posted by DoctorKz on 7/4/2018 5:55:00 PM (view original):
I will still bet on the private sector to deliver a better product that's affordable. The government is awful at doing anything that meets expectations, and they usually pay more than they should. As I have said before, when did the DMV ever exceed your expectations?

Most health in the world: Luxembourg - Public
2nd: Singapore - Mixed, but spends a lot
3rd: Switzerland - Public
4th: Japan - Public
5th: Netherlands - Mixed
6th: Sweden - Public
7th: Hong Kong - Mixed, mostly public
8th: Australia - Public
9th: Israel - Public
10th: Germany - Public

Sense a pattern?

Yes, the pattern is that all of the countries you listed have MUCH smaller populations.

Posted by strikeout26 on 7/4/2018 9:53:00 PM (view original):
Where are your numbers coming from relating to the costs of healthcare and education. I'm not saying you're wrong, but they seam drastically low.

Experts say that equal funding for education would cost 30 bn over 10 years (not free college).

I was wrong about the healthcare one. Bernie says it would cost 1.3 trillion per year over the first 10 years.

Ir would take a combination of the two.

Posted by strikeout26 on 7/4/2018 10:06:00 PM (view original):
Yes, the pattern is that all of the countries you listed have MUCH smaller populations.

Exactly what difference does that make? More people is a larger tax base.

Population makes a huge difference.

You do realize that raising taxes on the top 1% doesn't even come close to covering that $13 Trillion. That's assuming his figures are correct. I'm guessing they are low as well.

I have 5 Japanese/Singapore kids on the baseball team that I am coaching this summer. I will ask them tomorrow what healthcare is like there and report back.

Posted by strikeout26 on 7/4/2018 10:10:00 PM (view original):
Population makes a huge difference.

How so?